Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#71

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:24 PM UTC

ptr_void wrote: post #43

hellofunk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

I have seen videos where he explains: insurance pays for the medicine, not individuals, and people who can't afford/have insurance gets them freely from government programs/their company programs.

>insurance pays for the medicine, not individuals

And who pays for insurance? (Hint: It's individuals) Shkreli is right in that by raising the prices he wasn't really gouging the sick for thousands and thousands of dollars, he was gouging all of us with insurance for some fraction of a penny. It's still wrong.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#72

Post by orblivion » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:24 PM UTC

purplerabbit wrote: post #46

CydeWeys wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. There's no redeeming yourself from that just because you're charming or intelligent. Psychopaths often are.

Do you have evidence of this happening? Shkreli said publicly that if anyone couldn't afford his pricey drug he'd ensure that they got it. I have no idea whether he ever followed through.

BTW it's common for drug companies to do this:

* https://www.medicare.gov/pharmaceutical-assistance-program/

* https://www.astrazeneca-us.com/medicines/Affordability.html

* http://www.pfizerrxpathways.com/

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#73

Post by mikeash » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:24 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #5

I use to hate this guy, then I saw the Vice interview on him. It was nice to see his side of the story. I don't know much about this case in particular. It was kinda sleazy to see the congress question him about his price increases when they knew damn well it was perfectly legal and they haven't done anything to stop it. Shkreli seems to be trying to expose this hypocrisy, but the news loves their stories. Vice inter…

What's wrong with Congress questioning someone about legal but shady activity? If he broke the law, he'd just be prosecuted. No reason for Congress to have anything to do with it. But if what he did was legal but wrong, then maybe the law should be changed, and that's exactly what Congress is for.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#74

Post by huac » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:25 PM UTC

swang wrote: post #22

Clubber wrote: post #5

I use to hate this guy, then I saw the Vice interview on him. It was nice to see his side of the story. I don't know much about this case in particular. It was kinda sleazy to see the congress question him about his price increases when they knew damn well it was perfectly legal and they haven't done anything to stop it. Shkreli seems to be trying to expose this hypocrisy, but the news loves their stories. Vice inter…

> Prosecutors argued that Shkreli lied to investors in two hedge funds and the pharmaceutical company Retrophin, all of which he founded. Shkreli told investors he graduated from Columbia University, that his hedge fund was large and profitable, and that he had hired an auditor, they said. These were all lies, according to prosecutors. yeah seems like a great dude...

I mean, everybody came out okay - Shkreli really made his investors a lot of money! Yeah, he lied, but he did some incredible work: typical fraudsters take your money and run - he doesn't fit that mold.

Honestly, the issue was that he's an utter asshole, including to his investors. Investors are willing to put with a lot if you triple their money, but Shkreli managed to cross that line. That made him an easy target for the prescription drugs investigation and media circus.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#75

Post by charlesdm » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:25 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #50

swang wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prosecutors argued that Shkreli lied to investors in two hedge funds and the pharmaceutical company Retrophin, all of which he founded. Shkreli told investors he graduated from Columbia University, that his hedge fund was large and profitable, and that he had hired an auditor, they said. These were all lies, according to prosecutors. yeah seems like a great dude...

Interestingly, his fraud seems to fall into two categories. Lying about his fund's bonafides and status on one side, and working hard to make sure those same investors got what they were expecting by founding a company, making it successful and paying them out from the profits. It sounds like he definitely lied to investors, but he apparently didn't intend to steal their money, and took pains to make sure he did not…

I haven't followed everything closely, but did anyone lose money in the end?

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#76

Post by ptr_void » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:25 PM UTC

ZenoArrow wrote: post #49

ptr_void wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen videos where he explains: insurance pays for the medicine, not individuals, and people who can't afford/have insurance gets them freely from government programs/their company programs.

Price gouging by pharmaceutical companies almost certainly drives up health insurance costs. It's not a victimless crime.

By his explanation: There are only a small amount of patient that patients that needs this drug. I think the number was around 2000.

Also drugs are not the largest part of insurances pay for.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#77

Post by discombobulate » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:25 PM UTC

I quite like Martin. I talked to him a few time on YouTube, whilst he was live streaming.

He's whip-smart & knowledgeable. He does, however, have a couple of major flaws. 1) He trolls. Hard. 2) It seems he lies. Which I picked up from a previous news article. (He claimed to have ~$50mm under management @ his previous hedge fund. It was more like $1.6mm. Something like that).

I can forgive the trolling. It's over the top, IMO. But it is what it is.

The lying is another kettle of fish. You can't go around bullshitting ppl. &, as he found out, you can't go around bullshitting investors.

I think he loves money too much. The thought of being poor may have pushed him to do something stupid (ultimately his call!).

I hope he doesn't have too hard a time in jail. Losing his fortune (I believe he loses his shares from Retrophin. ~$65mm. That's already a punishment.

Edit: I don't know why I'm being downvoted. I'm being honest. Fuck you people, frankly.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#78

Post by wfunction » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:25 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #64

Sangermaine wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? He's human garbage, let him rot. It's astounding how people are being taken in by this con man.

Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think he's human garbage? You felt strongly enough to reply, maybe you can muster the effort to explain why you think that?

> Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think he's human garbage.

Obtaining a license just to increase a drug's price from $13.50 to $750 for no apparent reason other than greed isn't enough for you?

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#79

Post by hellofunk » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:26 PM UTC

ptr_void wrote: post #43

hellofunk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

I have seen videos where he explains: insurance pays for the medicine, not individuals, and people who can't afford/have insurance gets them freely from government programs/their company programs.

There is a reason why most international insurers will cover your health concerns everywhere in the world except the U.S. The American health system has out of control expenses that are putting immense strain on its every seam. Making distributors or insurance companies pay much more because "fuck them" (as Shkreli proudly said) only adds to a very serious problem in American healthcare.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#80

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:26 PM UTC

RunawayGalaxy wrote: post #66

CydeWeys wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. There's no redeeming yourself from that just because you're charming or intelligent. Psychopaths often are.

FWIW, he claims that he gave the medicine away for free to people who could prove they couldn't afford it, so that he was really only screwing insurance companies. I believe that he was trying to draw media attention to the outrageous, legally-allowed colluding practices of the insurance and pharma industries. It would have been in his best interest to not draw attention to himself and slowly raise the price of the d…

> FWIW, he claims that he gave the medicine away for free to people who could prove they couldn't afford it, so that he was really only screwing insurance companies.

Screwing insurance companies means increased costs for everyone. I'd really rather not pay 20% higher premiums every year to pad someone like Shkreli's pocketbook.