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How I tried to get into game development and failed

enterprisecraftsmanship.com

71–80 of 170 posts

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#71
post #43

I don't mean to be dismissive, but here are the main issues I see with the process (and the final product): - Bottom line, the game is not particularly fun, novel, or difficult. You'll notice that games like Flappy Bird, Agar.io, Papers Please, etc. are at least one of the three. Bist.io is not the type of game that will ever go viral. - You spent money on AdWords but didn't spend money on sponsored Youtube, Instagra…

I was unexpectedly successful in the gaming business (Empire). All I did was make the game I wanted to play, but couldn't find.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#72
post #35

This seems like a case study in premature optimization

Not really. If you're doing a multiplayer shooter, solving the lag problem is basic. Otherwise the thing is too annoying to play. The question is whether you can come up with something more fun than a top-down multiplayer shooter. It's not like there's a shortage of those. For some reason, the latest fad in indy browser games seems to be parking games. Truck parking. Tank parking. Airplane parking. Crane parking. Man…

It's important to distinguish between premature optimization and unnecessary or irrelevant optimization. As many others have pointed out, the OP tunneled in on the details of netplay before there was anything to even play. He's doing the steps in a known bad order.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#73
post #43

I don't mean to be dismissive, but here are the main issues I see with the process (and the final product): - Bottom line, the game is not particularly fun, novel, or difficult. You'll notice that games like Flappy Bird, Agar.io, Papers Please, etc. are at least one of the three. Bist.io is not the type of game that will ever go viral. - You spent money on AdWords but didn't spend money on sponsored Youtube, Instagra…

Once when I was working at a game publisher I thought it would be fun to help an indie game project anonymously. At that point I had designed or produced many games, but the job was going through a dull phase. So I picked out a project on sourceforge (this was a long time ago) and offered to help out.

Pretty much all they were doing was recreating all the UI widgets in any OS (buttons, pull down menus, etc.). Everything was less than half done and there was a lot of work put in. I suggested maybe prototype some gameplay.. No, it was important that they start from a clean code base.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#74
Well, congrats on creating and publishing your game! That alone is far further than most people get, and you should be proud of your work.

Good job on the coding side of things too. I'm not exactly an expert programmer myself, but it seems like you found some good solutions to the problems you were having with lag and what not there too. As you say yourself, they're all things you can learn from and reuse in future projects.

However, as for the game itself... I can see why it didn't quite catch on.

It's probably not the idea itself being terrible, because I feel the main game concept seems decent enough. Is it original? No of course not. It's been absolutely done to death a million times in the past, with tank fighting games being a long standing part of the medium.

But it's an idea than anyone can grasp really easily. So the potential for going viral was certainly there.

The issue was in how the game was presented and how it was marketed. For example, as much as your designer did their best, it just doesn't look very interesting as far as the art style goes. Really, it's the same old generic style I've seen in dozens of app store games nowadays. The kind that looks like it's trying to mimic the style of a Mac OS icon and not quite succeeding.

And that likely put people off. Remember, they've seen hundreds of games that look vaguely like this one. So they skipped your one thinking it just wasn't interesting enough to bother with.

So that's the first problem you had with the title. You picked a very generic looking art style, and used it with a game whose core designs had done a million times before. It just didn't stand out.

The second problem you had was marketing. Put simply, telling a few websites and setting up a social media account or two doesn't work nowadays. Seriously, unless your game is some amazing viral hit that blows up like Minecraft or Five Nights at Freddy's, you can't just rely on the whole 'build it and they'll come' philosophy.

No, what you needed to do was market the thing to YouTubers and other influencers. That's because those people have tens or hundreds of thousands of subscribers interested in the games they play, and usually in turn end up inspiring other people online to cover said games. Tons and tons of previously unknown indie projects have succeeded because they were lucky enough to have PewDiePie or the likes pick them up.

Hence you should have contacted these people (including some of the smaller channels) and tried to get them to do a video about your game. That's how a game tends to go viral now. Someone who's popular online plays it and says how great it is, and then their legions of fans and imitators give it a go afterwards.

That's just my opinion on the matter anyway. Feel you could have made the game look a bit more distinct and marketed it via YouTube influencers rather than just 'new IO game' listing websites.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#75
post #43

I don't mean to be dismissive, but here are the main issues I see with the process (and the final product): - Bottom line, the game is not particularly fun, novel, or difficult. You'll notice that games like Flappy Bird, Agar.io, Papers Please, etc. are at least one of the three. Bist.io is not the type of game that will ever go viral. - You spent money on AdWords but didn't spend money on sponsored Youtube, Instagra…

I was unexpectedly successful in the gaming business (Empire). All I did was make the game I wanted to play, but couldn't find.

If you are the Walter Bright, thank you for writing Empire! I played the hell out of that game in one of its ASCII PC ports.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#76
post #67
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, wait a minute. The author started with a simple, fun-to-play game, worked on it iteratively until it reached a certain level, did a release push, and continued to iteratively improve the game. (I realize that "fun-to-play" is subjective, but that's the author's call at that point.) I'm trying to see how this is fundamentally at odds with what you're thinking the approach should be? If you, as the creator of a g…

> how could you justify not resolving it prior to release? I'm not objecting to him addressing the lag, I'm objecting to him resolving it first . Until you've built something people want to play, addressing lag (and similar tertiary problems) is solving a hypothetical problem for a hypothetical player. And it may well be wasted effort, if you never nail the core product. But if you approach it from the other directio…

I don't think you can separate the core mechanic from the lag. If it's a multiplayer game where the internet is the medium of communication, then any gameplay mechanic has to be tolerant of the lag. If it isn't, you don't have a game.

Dealing with the lag is part of the MVP, not polish.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#77

I have been having a lot of fun playing this game with lots of others here on Hacker news. Some suggestions: 1) Make the levels more obvious. It's not clear why players are stronger than others for some time. It would also be nice to see how far I need to go to level up more clearly. 2) ADD CHAT! I can't emphasize this enough. We need to be able to yell at each other and complain and work together. 3) Add the ability…

Wow, that's a hell of a suggestion. All on point! Where were you when I was still developing the game

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#78
Honestly the two finger controls are terrible on mobile though.

I'm somewhat ambidextrous and had a hard time getting the controls to work. A lot of times I'd cross the control area wrong and end up stuck, get shot and die quickly.

You need easier controls. Maybe hold for move, tap for direction fire.

Fundamentally the game is great, smooth, has decent mechanics. I'd play it if the controls felt more natural.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#79
post #74

Well, congrats on creating and publishing your game! That alone is far further than most people get, and you should be proud of your work. Good job on the coding side of things too. I'm not exactly an expert programmer myself, but it seems like you found some good solutions to the problems you were having with lag and what not there too. As you say yourself, they're all things you can learn from and reuse in future p…

Actually, we figured the Youtubers thing pretty quickly, I just didn't emphasize this stage in the blog. We did try to reach out to them for about a month. With no luck. Only one more or less famous Youtuber posted a video about the game. Another one agreed to take our money and posted a video. Others just didn't respond. I don't know how others manage to market to Youtubers.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#80
post #43

I don't mean to be dismissive, but here are the main issues I see with the process (and the final product): - Bottom line, the game is not particularly fun, novel, or difficult. You'll notice that games like Flappy Bird, Agar.io, Papers Please, etc. are at least one of the three. Bist.io is not the type of game that will ever go viral. - You spent money on AdWords but didn't spend money on sponsored Youtube, Instagra…

Once when I was working at a game publisher I thought it would be fun to help an indie game project anonymously. At that point I had designed or produced many games, but the job was going through a dull phase. So I picked out a project on sourceforge (this was a long time ago) and offered to help out. Pretty much all they were doing was recreating all the UI widgets in any OS (buttons, pull down menus, etc.). Everyth…

On the one hand that's sort of mindblowing, on the other not that surprising, and reading the original article just underscores my (thankfully brief) experience of working in a large enterprise: the one thing you can absolutely trust is that when it comes to product development a senior enterprise developer or architect will always focus on the wrong problem.

I find their approach to software development in general, and product development in particular, to be both asinine and perverse, and despite banging on endlessly about architecture and agile none of them seems capable of delivering even mediocre software, let alone anything you'd call good, in anything other than a geological timescale.

Applying those observations to this case: they should have focussed on creating a fun game, i.e., on what users want. Instead they focussed on technical and architectural issues and built something that sounds like an impressive piece of software but which is not fun, and which doesn't feel terribly polished or playable. In other words, they failed, although at least they have the stones to admit it.

This is enterprise software all over. Seriously, if you want to build good software, where "good" means 10x value adding in your domain of choice, and which users love, do NOT work in a large enterprise, and do not work with enterprise developers. These people will waste your time, hold you back, and drag you down.

(All of that being said: interesting article, and a worthwhile read if only as an illustration of how not to do things, and hopefully the author really has learned something useful.)

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