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What happened to studying?

boston.com

71–80 of 81 posts

Re: What happened to studying?

#71
post #39

College is losing its romantic lustre. Students used to believe in education for itself, but now ambitious students just cram in more classes and activities to graduate faster or pad their grad school applications. Before, a student studying the American Revolution in class might go to the library and flip through the books in the professor's "suggested reading" section on the syllabus looking for a particularly inte…

Nah, students never "cared" about learning. College started in the U.S. as a way for the upper classes to cavort under the ostentation of "learning about the world". It has always been a status signal. This is why the middle classes are willing to pay their left nut for a suitably prestigious degree - status signals to the middle classes are like honey to a bee (or something). There are perhaps .5% of the population…

I don't agree with your percentages on how many people truly benefit from a 4 year degree, In all the coverage of Senator Byrd though I did notice an interesting fact.

The recently deceased senator received a law degree in the early 1960's. Interestingly, he did not receive a bachelor's degree until the 1990's.

Apparently back then you only needed a high school diploma to go to law school.

There are a lot of things that are most efficiently learned and are useful to the world that colleges teach. It doesn't have to be just a place for future researchers, but as a society it would be useful for us to look at what we require a degree for, and figure out if that is really necessary or just a waste of time and money.

Of course, the money is big enough that this is unlikely to happen in a measured, sensible way.

Re: What happened to studying?

#72
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without them, many people wouldn't bother studying. With them, many people don't bother studying.

Yup, pretty much what the article is all about. Only a handful of schools, like Yale Med, don't have grades.

Strangely, I find myself in favour of marking exams (i.e. pointing out flaws and good points, maybe giving a score). Feedback is nice. But I am not in favour of grades for a class.

Although taking some kind of weighted average of the scores of individual tests is more or less trivial, I resent it. Perhaps having one final test is a better option? I don't know.

Re: What happened to studying?

#73
post #39

College is losing its romantic lustre. Students used to believe in education for itself, but now ambitious students just cram in more classes and activities to graduate faster or pad their grad school applications. Before, a student studying the American Revolution in class might go to the library and flip through the books in the professor's "suggested reading" section on the syllabus looking for a particularly inte…

Nah, students never "cared" about learning. College started in the U.S. as a way for the upper classes to cavort under the ostentation of "learning about the world". It has always been a status signal. This is why the middle classes are willing to pay their left nut for a suitably prestigious degree - status signals to the middle classes are like honey to a bee (or something). There are perhaps .5% of the population…

> There is really no logical connection between the two, and indeed most professors dislike 'teaching'.

My math professors liked teaching. But that was in Germany. And they are also burdened with a bureaucracy, that makes teaching feel nice in contrast.

Re: What happened to studying?

#74
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, pretty much what the article is all about. Only a handful of schools, like Yale Med, don't have grades.

Strangely, I find myself in favour of marking exams (i.e. pointing out flaws and good points, maybe giving a score). Feedback is nice. But I am not in favour of grades for a class. Although taking some kind of weighted average of the scores of individual tests is more or less trivial, I resent it. Perhaps having one final test is a better option? I don't know.

"Strangely, I find myself in favour of marking exams (i.e. pointing out flaws and good points, maybe giving a score), but not so much in favour of grades."

How does one fail a class if there are no grades? We can't let everyone pass (especially in something like medical school)

Re: What happened to studying?

#75
University is not about studying entirely. You can freely study in your own as much as you like, simply buy the textbooks and read them. Indeed in such way one can in perhaps five years learn about all the major subjects, economics, physics, literature, et al.

The lectures are nothing more than a fanciful way of stating what is in the reading and if you have done the reading before hand you would be really bored and it is boring enough.

The seminars can be interesting and that is when everyone learns. You do need to do the reading before hand, but that takes no more than one hour. That is how long I used to study, one hour of reading before the class and I would be very well prepared. Then I was able to engage in the class discussions and engage in some real thinking.

That however does not include the assignments, especially in the final year, or the exams, where, at some point around February or March, you need to study almost all day and things can very easily get out of hand if you do not.

This is also where real knowledge is acquired. Not from the reading of the class book, but from the preparation of assignments, which requires a reading of some 20 journals, many cases - I did law and psychology - some books and then the actual writing of the paper itself. It is a very successful model of learning, that of learning by doing.

Now to go back to my point. University teaches you how to live independently for a start, to have the confidence to stand in front of your peers or argue with them, to manage and organise your time, but most important of all, to actually learn who you are and who you want to be.

The real story from this article is not that students are studying less, the reasons are obvious, we hardly need to take notes in class, we have power point presentations which we can read at any time which we do not because they are too condensed, everyone now has their own textbook which might not have been true 50 years ago, which are only little used because we can actually access real research which happens in pokets of the year rather than throughout.

Thus the questions for the researches of the polls and the like mentioned in the article are, when were the polls asked. From the article mentioning that number one is that the students do not know how to study I would probably think the polls were around October or November or maybe December time. This is the quietest time in university life. Even if the polls were asked at the same time each year since 1960s, there still have been many changes and things are very different. Thus, perhaps students are not really studying less. They might and probably do underestimate the time they spend studying also and perhaps some might not consider certain activities as studying at all such as researching for your assignment.

The real story from the article is that No 2 on the list is that the students are depressed. Why? Perhaps because they are disappointed and bored. It is too easy, you read the book, then you go to the lecture and are told what was in the book, then you go to the seminar and again are told what is in the book. Unless your memory is inferior, you will probably have a very good understanding of what is in the book by the end of it, until come February that is.

So why are the students depressed? Because they are disappointed and kind of angry. They want to be creative, opinionated, original, discover some ground breaking way of thinking, not rigid, objective, professional. They feel like they are a bit regimented.

However, perhaps and probably by the end they realise that their expectations were simply wrong and not very effective or useful when engaging with practice. They instead probably appreciate that they now have very good idea of the methods of operating within their field. If that is not success and if the system which achieves the goal of teaching the kids how to be men, then, what on earth is?

University works. Through the troubles and ordeals the adolescents are turned into adults. They are given the time to discover what they like, what they think, what are their principles, values, what are the principles and values of society, do they agree with them, would they like to change them, they are given the skills required to communicate effectively, find knowledge and synthesise it with the aim of coming to a conclusion on the entire matter etcetera.

I therefore disagree with the article that people are studying less. They are just studying differently. I also disagree with many commentators who suggest that our educational system is a shambles, especially at a university level. I think it is the best system humankind has found to a smooth transition from a confused adolescent to a very able adult.

Re: What happened to studying?

#76
post #74
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely, I find myself in favour of marking exams (i.e. pointing out flaws and good points, maybe giving a score). Feedback is nice. But I am not in favour of grades for a class. Although taking some kind of weighted average of the scores of individual tests is more or less trivial, I resent it. Perhaps having one final test is a better option? I don't know.

"Strangely, I find myself in favour of marking exams (i.e. pointing out flaws and good points, maybe giving a score), but not so much in favour of grades." How does one fail a class if there are no grades? We can't let everyone pass (especially in something like medical school)

Don't let anybody pass.

I guess in general we should disentangle teaching with accreditation. I.e. the institution that grades you, should not be the one that collects your tuition money. Just to prevent conflicts of interest.

(Letting somebody pass in medical school might be a different topic, I agree.)

Re: What happened to studying?

#77
post #74
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely, I find myself in favour of marking exams (i.e. pointing out flaws and good points, maybe giving a score). Feedback is nice. But I am not in favour of grades for a class. Although taking some kind of weighted average of the scores of individual tests is more or less trivial, I resent it. Perhaps having one final test is a better option? I don't know.

"Strangely, I find myself in favour of marking exams (i.e. pointing out flaws and good points, maybe giving a score), but not so much in favour of grades." How does one fail a class if there are no grades? We can't let everyone pass (especially in something like medical school)

It's pass/fail, so you can still fail. Something like 70% or below is failing. You still get graded on work, but the classes themselves don't result in a GPA, just pass or fail.

I know the idea at Yale is that the students have proven they're hard-working, smart, and dedicated to being doctors, so they don't need to be run through that gauntlet again. Yale would rather them focus on really learning rather than gaming the grading system for a better class rank.

Re: What happened to studying?

#78
post #39

College is losing its romantic lustre. Students used to believe in education for itself, but now ambitious students just cram in more classes and activities to graduate faster or pad their grad school applications. Before, a student studying the American Revolution in class might go to the library and flip through the books in the professor's "suggested reading" section on the syllabus looking for a particularly inte…

A lot of assertions; a lot of bullshit.

Re: What happened to studying?

#79
Im not sure I knew anybody in University who didn't study 4+ hours a night. very odd article. I routinly would wake up at 8, go to class and work, come home at 6 eat dinner, take a 1 hour nap, then a shower. Go back to the library at 8pm, study until 2am, then go home and sleep. I did that 5 days a week.

Re: What happened to studying?

#80

The ugly truth is that kids don't study because they aren't expected to. Let's face it as long as their kid gets that perfect GPA and is obedient enough most parents don't give a damn that they actually learn something. To my peers it's just a ritual they need to complete in order to have a good "life" whatever that is. In fact, my teachers have scolded me for trying to derive stuff on my own. It is quite obvious to…

"No one expects them to create things, that's left to those nuts like me (someone said this to me point-blank)." I distinguish the two types of students by whether or not they need calculus to proceed. The ones who don't are just serving time.

As a person of humanities background, I find that criterion questionable. :-)
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