How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters • Hacker News Board

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#71

Post by vonmoltke » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #65

spyspy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever taken a rush hour train at Penn Station? The alternative (i.e. current system) is everyone congregates on the concourse staring at the platform screens, and when a new one pops up hundreds of people flood in the direction of that platform in a mad dash. It's a mess.

This is absurd. After commuting for 1 year less than a year I knew which track to go to for any of the trains I ended up on. And more importantly where to stand on the platform to be at a door when the train pulled in. The idea that somehow it's unknown or occult knowledge as to which track to go to is silly, when they announce the track for the train over the PA, they sometimes say 'This is a track change', and the…

You must be using the LIRR. Things are not as consistent on the NJTransit side if the house. I know with about 90% certainty which of two platforms to go to for my train. Sometimes, like Monday, they throw us a curve ball and board us on the other side if the concourse. Occasionally we even board on track 13 in the LIRR area.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#72

Post by specto » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 5:33 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #34

For about a year a decade and a half ago, I commuted into and out of Penn Station with my father who had been doing so since the late 70s. Not only did he know which track any of a half dozen trains that he might take would come in on but he knew where the doors would open for each of the tracks. And he wasn't the only one either. If you went down before they announced the tracks you'd see little clusters of people w…

I mean, everyone I know that takes the LIRR lines up where I do and knows where the train (usually) stops. When it's a short train is when we panic...

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#73

Post by throwaway20148 » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

eveningcoffee wrote: post #64

bogomipz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is exactly this alternative(the current system) that the Amtrak/MTA/LIRR prefer for safety reasons. Amtrak which also has the same procedure at Penn states this here: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/07/17/amtrak_s_unpe... Although it is indeed inefficient and the MTA is completely inept, the platforms for LIRR trains are very narrow, they are shared by two trains and the escalators to get up to the main f…

I think this is also dehumanizing.

Following some rules is dehumanizing?

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#74

Post by dirtybirdnj » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

throwaway20148 wrote: post #73

eveningcoffee wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is also dehumanizing.

Following some rules is dehumanizing?

Being treated like cattle shuttled down a narrow pathway. Being forced to wade into a compressed crowd of people who apparently forget all manners and will push and shove you.

It's basically one of, if not the worst parts of every day. And there is nothing you can do to avoid it.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#75

Post by cat199 » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 5:51 PM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #70

eveningcoffee wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is also dehumanizing.

Mass transit is dehumanizing. Cities are dehumanizing. A significant amount of the way that giant infrastructure works is making assumptions and rote; Turning the human problem of "how do I get here" into a mechanical process of "There are two ways to do so, X and Y, each of which follow these steps". This is great for efficiency - that's why it's done. It's terrible for humanity. It's stagnant, it kills creativity,…

Yet, at the same time, people living in cities with mass transit vs suburban sprawl (admittedly still not an 'ideal') prefer the cities for the increased sense of community, higher sense of dynamism, and more 'creative' things going on than what they might get in their their non-mass-transit suburban coutnerparts..

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#76

Post by bogomipz » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #70

eveningcoffee wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is also dehumanizing.

Mass transit is dehumanizing. Cities are dehumanizing. A significant amount of the way that giant infrastructure works is making assumptions and rote; Turning the human problem of "how do I get here" into a mechanical process of "There are two ways to do so, X and Y, each of which follow these steps". This is great for efficiency - that's why it's done. It's terrible for humanity. It's stagnant, it kills creativity,…

I agree with your points. I am curious about your use of the phrase "tragedy of the commons" though, specifically how it relates to mass transit.

I would think the "tragedy of the commons" would people who elect to drive a car during rush hour rather than taking a similarly viable mass transit option if one exists.

Or are you using the term just in the context of overpopulation? Thanks.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#77

Post by cat199 » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

mark212 wrote: post #69

bradleyjg wrote: post #34

For about a year a decade and a half ago, I commuted into and out of Penn Station with my father who had been doing so since the late 70s. Not only did he know which track any of a half dozen trains that he might take would come in on but he knew where the doors would open for each of the tracks. And he wasn't the only one either. If you went down before they announced the tracks you'd see little clusters of people w…

same thing on the subway, with an extra dimension of starting on the local, switching to the express, then transferring at another station. Pretty quickly you get to know where to stand to get on the most efficient end of the train to be closest to the stairway up to the transfer platform, etc. Makes an otherwise tedious trip somewhat interesting as a puzzle.

And on some systems, one can usually tell if an inbound train is running faster/slower than normal and where to adjust position accordingly to end up at the right door/position/etc..

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#78

Post by futurix » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 5:58 PM UTC

tedmiston wrote: post #26

CPLX wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more serious than that even, it's a safety issue. The platforms are fairly narrow and have no railings, and they aren't designed to hold two full train loads of people at the same time. If a full train pulls up and the platform is already full people are going to end up on the tracks. I haven't seen this at Penn but I have seen the issue happen in the subway when there are train delays. When this happens the MTA…

> The platforms are fairly narrow and have no railings, and they aren't designed to hold two full train loads of people at the same time. It seems pretty unlikely that 100% of the people on the outbound train would use the app and trust the historical data to go to the platform early.

Once people see others walking towards a platform (particularly if they just checked something on their phones), they tend to do the same.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#79

Post by dkrich » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

I wonder if there's any correlation or way to know based on where a train is arriving from to know where it's headed. If that were the case, you could potentially either look for that data, or if it isn't available, have a Waze-like app where commuters can report which train they are on and which track they are pulling into.

As an aside, I wonder whether the OP considered charging a hefty price (>$20 or so) for the app. This would lessen the number of users and page requests.

Having travelled from Penn many times and having had to deal with the massive stampede that ensues when they suddenly reveal the track number, I would pay dearly to have this info available to me. Even if I used it once every year, not having to fight crowds or look forever to find an available seat, that would be money well spent. Additionally, many of the peak travelers are business travelers who probably have more money to spend on an app. I realize this isn't the most democratic solution, but it could be a way to lessen the crowds nonetheless.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#80

Post by dkrich » Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 6:02 PM UTC

futurix wrote: post #78

tedmiston wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The platforms are fairly narrow and have no railings, and they aren't designed to hold two full train loads of people at the same time. It seems pretty unlikely that 100% of the people on the outbound train would use the app and trust the historical data to go to the platform early.

Once people see others walking towards a platform (particularly if they just checked something on their phones), they tend to do the same.

But there are lots of trains leaving at any given time going to different places. There's no way to know which train somebody is heading to without asking them.