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Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

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Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#71

Post by AndrewKemendo »

aivijay wrote: post #70
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got it backwards. Our brains are what is holding society back. We need a socio-cultural breaktrough of the same magnitude as the technological breakthrough That's what transhumanism is. It's a restructuring of the human system around symbiosis with AI.

"It's a restructuring of the human system around symbiosis with AI". This sounds more like to basically have a socio-cultural breakthrough, you want a technological entity (some AI or whatever it turns out to be in the future) to control and direct human socio-cultural thoughts and execution. Transhumanism seems to be more oriented towards equipping humans to be interfaced(through some HCI - human computer interface)…

you want a technological entity (some AI or whatever it turns out to be in the future) to control and direct human socio-cultural thoughts and execution.

Yes exactly!

Transhumanism seems to be more oriented towards equipping humans to be interfaced(through some HCI - human computer interface) with computers around an AI, and other human built accessories (atleast for now) to enhance their mental abilities to project them as more powerful humans.

It's currently sold that way, yes, but I don't see it that way. I envision it more like what I have been told/read about is the "Borg" from Star Trek (admittedly I've never seen it).

But giving control to an AI to make your decisions or control humans in the name of technological break through is absurd.

As absurd now as walking around on the moon was in the 1st Century.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#72

Post by ghurtado »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #28
captainmuon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should really fix society before we develop that kind of technology. We need a socio-cultural breaktrough of the same magnitude as the technological breakthrough. Something on par with the development of monotheism, enlightenment, capitalism, or democracy. A "communistic" utopia (for lack of a better word) without the flaws of its historical implementations. Then the question is moot. There is no private b…

I agree. Once we develop the ability to upload and modify brains, it will be easy to morph them. We can extract the primal desire to defend yourself, to become angry, to want to own property. These emotions will be reserved for the founders. It will take time to get there. Many will resist, so we have to keep our goal a secret. But people are gullible. With our morphogenic brain technology, we can give people experie…

I hope you're being 100% sarcastic.

If you're not, I must ask: is your name Andrew Ryan perchance?

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#73

Post by criddell »

lwansbrough wrote: post #48

This is hard, but perhaps even harder than you might think. I read an extremely long exploration of this concept a couple weeks ago. It's a layman explanation but it really does a great job of outlining the real complications of such a device. Here's the article: https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html One takeaway that gives you the sense of scale: there are at least 40,000 neurons in 1mm^3 of the cerebral cor…

Modern CPUs have on the order of 10 billion transistors and we have a pretty good idea of how those work. In my (uneducated) opinion, it feels like current tech must be close to providing the tools and scale necessary to start figuring this stuff out, no?

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#74

Post by aivijay »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #71
aivijay wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's a restructuring of the human system around symbiosis with AI". This sounds more like to basically have a socio-cultural breakthrough, you want a technological entity (some AI or whatever it turns out to be in the future) to control and direct human socio-cultural thoughts and execution. Transhumanism seems to be more oriented towards equipping humans to be interfaced(through some HCI - human computer interface)…

you want a technological entity (some AI or whatever it turns out to be in the future) to control and direct human socio-cultural thoughts and execution. Yes exactly! Transhumanism seems to be more oriented towards equipping humans to be interfaced(through some HCI - human computer interface) with computers around an AI, and other human built accessories (atleast for now) to enhance their mental abilities to project…

"As absurd now as walking around on the moon was in the 1st Century."

Yes true(wonder why we don't shuttle down to the moon since we landed half a century ago and still never went back???), it is going to be absurd till we have an AI which is as capable(or even half as capable) as much as a human and we can debug that AI or maybe that AI debug's itself reflexively. Till then, I would say its absurd anytime to think that an AI could take control of a human and guide the human in its actions. Till then, I will keep my brain intact and keep away from any AI implants or any kind of implant altogether).

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#75

Post by AndrewKemendo »

aivijay wrote: post #74
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you want a technological entity (some AI or whatever it turns out to be in the future) to control and direct human socio-cultural thoughts and execution. Yes exactly! Transhumanism seems to be more oriented towards equipping humans to be interfaced(through some HCI - human computer interface) with computers around an AI, and other human built accessories (atleast for now) to enhance their mental abilities to project…

"As absurd now as walking around on the moon was in the 1st Century." Yes true(wonder why we don't shuttle down to the moon since we landed half a century ago and still never went back???), it is going to be absurd till we have an AI which is as capable(or even half as capable) as much as a human and we can debug that AI or maybe that AI debug's itself reflexively. Till then, I would say its absurd anytime to think t…

I don't think we need superhuman AGI to start having AI guide human actions. We already let AI guide us in daily life all the time, navigation, purchasing recommendations etc...

It's not a question of IF we will have AI direct our behavior, it's just a question of scale.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#76

Post by aivijay »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #75
aivijay wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As absurd now as walking around on the moon was in the 1st Century." Yes true(wonder why we don't shuttle down to the moon since we landed half a century ago and still never went back???), it is going to be absurd till we have an AI which is as capable(or even half as capable) as much as a human and we can debug that AI or maybe that AI debug's itself reflexively. Till then, I would say its absurd anytime to think t…

I don't think we need superhuman AGI to start having AI guide human actions. We already let AI guide us in daily life all the time, navigation, purchasing recommendations etc... It's not a question of IF we will have AI direct our behavior, it's just a question of scale.

I understand, we use AI in one form or another in our daily lives. But for very specific and specialized narrow cases. As you mentioned, its that scale that matters which our brain does seamlessly and us as the generation with AI builders around, we are no where anything to perform in scale with an AI except very specialized tasks. It naturally will improve over time, but AI attaining AGI status and maybe taking control over socio-economic or socio-cultural changes would be a long shot unless we humans don't destroy ourselves by destroying life on earth.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#77

Post by jacquesm »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

If you were offered the chance to become as intelligent as Feynman but only if you turn over a copy of all your future thoughts to the private business that made this possible, would you take it? Something non-invasive, like a computer that images your brain while you sleep. If we are machines, then it seems reasonable that within a few millennia we might have this capability. I'm trying to think up some scenarios wh…

The question you should ask is would Feynman have agreed to it?

Because that's the person who will have to put up with it. You can only ask such a question if you're willing to give the future recipient of the gift the option to back out and be sent back to your present state. And if that new individual isn't 'you' in a legal sense you might find that contract nul and void anyway.

> Where it gets really strange is if you think of your wife or husband making a backup of their brain, then running a simulator on that backup.

There is a Black Mirror episode around that called 'Be right back'.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#78

Post by solotronics »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

If you were offered the chance to become as intelligent as Feynman but only if you turn over a copy of all your future thoughts to the private business that made this possible, would you take it? Something non-invasive, like a computer that images your brain while you sleep. If we are machines, then it seems reasonable that within a few millennia we might have this capability. I'm trying to think up some scenarios wh…

what happens when someone copies a simulation of you and tortures it digitally to get all your passwords and information?

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#79

Post by solotronics »

hackpert wrote: post #53

More than anything, I am excited about the possibilities this opens up. A lot of fields that DARPA touches with its funding-filled hands turn into a technology that defines the future, from the internet to self-driving cars to GPS. Exciting times we live in indeed!

defense technology for everyone! can't wait for my US NSA Facebook TM brain implant to keep me happy and productive.

Re: Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons

#80

Post by gene-h »

My only worry with this is that it might be too focused on developing technology rather than doing basic science to make such things possible. Time and time again trying to develop the tech before the science is ready has not been very fruitful.

Current neural interfaces tend to kill neurons and eventually fail. Determining how to avoid these problems is still a very big question. This is incredibly important for making practical neural interfaces. However, the approaches developed might not necessarily be compatible with technologies developed here. For example, the manufacturing process might need to be completely different, or a flexible substrate might be required.

There has progress in solving these problems though: https://phys.org/news/2017-03-graphene-based-neural-probes-p...

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