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Loudness (2007)

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Re: Loudness (2007)

#71

Post by Aaargh20318 »

munificent wrote: post #62
moolcool wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying you want low dynamic range on all of your photographs so you can see every detail. Dynamic range is an integral part of music

> That's like saying you want low dynamic range on all of your photographs so you can see every detail. Which is actually a super common problem in amateur and even some pro photography today. "High dynamic range" (HDR) lets you capture an image with a greater dynamic range than the sensor itself can detect, usually by stacking a few photos taken with different settings. It preserves details that would otherwise be l…

> In other words, it's compression for images.

No, it’s not.

There are two parts to this. First is capturing a HDR image, either by stacking photos or using a sensor with a good dynamic range (and capturing in raw). This is a good thing as you are capturing more information.

The compression you talk about is called tone-mapping and is used to make it possible to view HDR images on a non-HDR display. It can either be (over) done intentionally or it can just be an unfortunate consequence of HDR displays not being mainstream yet. Fortunately HDR is becoming a thing now for TV’s so computers are sure to follow.

Now, viewing HDR material on an actual HDR display, that is something different and can look absolutely stunning.

Re: Loudness (2007)

#72

Post by elmar »

cr1895 wrote: post #70
elmar wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today if you want dynamic range you have to buy Vinyl or lossless downloads. http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Roger+Waters&a... http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Roger%20Waters

No, it still depends how it was mastered. You can have crap sounding vinyl and lossless, too.

yes you are right you can have very crappy sounding vinyl, your best bet is vinyl but you always do your research.

Unfortunately SACD is dead and even on SACD the CD tracks can be a diferent mastering and very diferent from the SACD track.

Re: Loudness (2007)

#73

Post by Aaargh20318 »

ryandrake wrote: post #31
trevyn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Movies generally have a wide dynamic range so that loud action scenes are very loud. You don't want your normal dialogue to be at the same volume as your explosions, unless you're watching at home with the volume down.

Much to the chagrin of people like my wife, who, during scenes with just dialog will remark, "I can't hear it, turn it up!" and then when the action starts, "Too loud!" I end up adjusting the volume up and down over and over throughout a 2-1/2 hour film. As much as I appreciate good dynamic range in recordings, I wish my sound system had a "constant loudness" function that I could just engage and put the remote down.

> I wish my sound system had a "constant loudness" function that I could just engage and put the remote down.

Any half-decent A/V receiver has this option. My Marantz receiver for example can scale the compression automatically depending on volume. The more you turn down the volume, the more it will compress, if you turn it up to max there will be no compression.

Re: Loudness (2007)

#74

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

hashmal wrote: post #58
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #53

Fortunately many audio providers now have been fighting back against this. For instance YouTube will punish video uploads that are louder than -13 LUFS by attenuating the level. This will provide a somewhat level playing field and encourage people to upload with a reasonable dynamic range.

And some others are going full retard. Some streaming services actually add compression to everything…

Ideally compression could be left for the end device. CyanogenMod has for a long time had compression control in settings. I can understand why some compression is useful, but it is a shame for the streaming provider to do this since information gets lost in compression.

Re: Loudness (2007)

#75

Post by davidgerard »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #32

This is pretty funny to me because I mostly listen to (and produce) electronic music.. and there are pretty much no rules when it comes to electronic music and loudness. Stupidly loud music can actually sound pretty dang good [0][1]. The momentary RMS in some Moody Good tracks can actually hit _above_ 0dBFS. If you have the right source material, you can brickwall the hell out of tracks and not notice the distortion.…

Yeah. In fact, if you don't have a LOUDNESS WARS mix on some dance music, it sounds wrong, like rock'n'roll without distortion on the guitar. At that point you need to do it to individual instruments, to achieve the effect people now expect to hear.

Re: Loudness (2007)

#76

Post by criddell »

mark-r wrote: post #50
coldtea wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With a high dynamic range, a headphones listener may feel the need to adjust the volume several times in a song to boost the clarity of softer sections or to make louder sections more comfortable to the ears, depending on the listening environment. Softer sections are created and meant to sound softer though. Boosting the volume only in certain sections is more like making your own mix...

Listening conditions make a big difference. I have a very dynamic version of Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody (source: MFSL CD) that sounds absolutely great at home but is unlistenable in the car. The average volume is just too far below the peaks, so you strain to hear most of the song with a noisy background.

It seems like car stereos should be where the compression takes place.

Re: Loudness (2007)

#77

Post by [deleted] »

Fice wrote: post #21
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easier to remove dynamic range on playback than to add it back in... don't many stereos have a "loudness" function which brickwalls the audio?

The "loudness" switch on stereo amplifiers is for loudness compensation [1], not compression. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_compensation

[deleted]

Re: Loudness (2007)

#78

Post by lflux »

hashmal wrote: post #59
chrismealy wrote: post #45

It's not just about volume. Tracks mastered with a ton of compression trick your brain into sounding louder than they really are, which is great for a song or two (or if you want pay people to pay attention to your tv commercial), but for listening to a whole album it wears you out. If you have an album you love but somehow never make it all the way through this is probably why. The perception of full volume gets you…

Not only it wears you out, but it can be dangerous, especially in clubs. The longer you listen to loud music (can be just a few minutes!), the more damage is done. Having music with a wide dynamic range helps to have an overall lower volume and preserve ears.

In Sweden, night clubs have a different time period for sound pressure exposure limits than concerts[0] (15 minutes instead of 60), partially due to the difference in dynamic range.

[0] https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/globalassets/livsvillkor... §5.1.2 vs §5.2.3

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