Live data from Hacker News

A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

aaai.org

71–80 of 166 posts

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extreme left throughout popular media? I watched a neoliberal win the democratic primary this past year. We can talk about whether the media was biased in her favor, but that would strengthen my point: they chose her over the progressive candidate. I really don't like this sort of "look what you made me do" thinking, especially when the reaction is to their own boogeymen. If the alt-right wants to blame the left…

I don't think the example you give is very poignant: the fact that the Democratic party (or rather its base) is not fully in line with its very progressive members, doesn't mean that there isn't a hard cultural push by said progressive members. I do agree with you that this culture war didn't suddenly appear and divide society as a whole ex nihilo, but that's because nothing ever does. Movements start small and expan…

> the fact that the Democratic party (or rather its base) is not fully in line with its very progressive members, doesn't mean that there isn't a hard cultural push by said progressive members.

I was responding mostly to the "popular media" claim, but I take your point.

The question of a "cultural push" is interesting to me for two reasons:

1. It suggests that there's been a concerted effort among liberals to reshape culture as a whole, and,

2. It makes broadly agreeable political positions more partisan than they need to be.

I don't know of a way to prove or disprove (1), besides saying that I'm not on the mailing list. I think progressive views tend to be more fragmented and diverse than conservative onlookers realize, and that this contributes to a feeling that progressives are advancing a monolithic program to change America's culture.

On the other hand, I think (2) is pretty worrying. Are gay rights part of the cultural push? What about access to (reasonably priced) medicine, or environmental consciousness?

I think that, apart from the true-believing fundamentalists and hardliners, most people can recognize that many progressive positions are at their core very agreeable (civil liberties for all, no unavoidable deaths, modernize our economy both for our own health and for future generations). The problem arises when those positions become associated with progressives qua some conservative boogeyman, not qua their benefit to society.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you interact with "universities"? Personally I have no idea what the typical atmosphere is on university campuses. Of course I'm aware of the protests that make the main stream media, but it seems silly to just assume that those small numbers of protests are broadly representative.

> Of course I'm aware of the protests that make the main stream media, but it seems silly to just assume that those small numbers of protests are broadly representative. You have to assume that a protest is representative of something larger. It's not like there's the normal population and then there's a few hundred people crazy enough to protest for reason X. Much more likely, they have a network of support, people…

“There’s something going on”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/13/the-f...

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#73
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that those are issues that should be addressed, but if you feel that Trump's rise wasn't legitimate, then I urge you to spend some time in an area of the country that voted for him. There are many, many areas of the country where people feel like their quality of life has been on the decline for decades and who have lost faith in normal politicians. The "altright rhetoric" may not be influential to you, but i…

Trump's rise wasn't legitimate because it was essentially a con job. Folks in rural parts of the country have been hurt by 30 years of anti-worker policies and, to an extent, globalization. In part they got neglected by regular politicians, but in part simply because jobs moved as the world changed they got left behind. Trump ran a campaign blaming immigrants and Muslims while promising to bring back coal and renegot…

> White rural America has every right to be angry, but that doesn't excuse embracing a racist con artist like Trump.

1. Blaming outsourcing and illegal immigration is not racist. If American citizens need to compete against people who are willing to work very hard for less than minimum wage, that hurts the wages and quality of life of Americans. Our labor laws exist for a reason.

2. Many people were aware of how non-political Trump sounded during the election. People didn't vote for him because of his eloquence, but because he was the only major contender that acknowledged many issues that our country had. Like you said, rural America has every right to be angry, and Trump was the only Republican that tried to tap into that.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm definitely falling into the "X.com used to be so much better back then!!" trope but I really hate how much /pol/ culture spread throughout 4chan. I think most of us who grew up on 4chan since '04 feel the same. The cancer of /pol/ and the rise of the 'alt-right' completely took over the culture of the site. It's sad, but I can't bring myself to visit even the SFW boards anymore.

I hope its easy to see that the rise of this "cancer" and the alt-right was a natural response to the rise of the extreme left throughout popular media and in society in general. There is nothing wrong with moderate conservatism, but when one must keep their conservative views in the closet, and anything conservative (on Reddit, Twitter, or simply at work) is seen as an inferior view point rather than just a differen…

The "rise of the extreme left throughout popular media"? So the communists and anarchists have taken over, then?

Come on, words mean things. I'm so tired of conservatives calling everything they disagree with the "far left", the "extreme left", and so on, as it muddies the waters for discussion of anything left of the Democratic Party.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#75
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope its easy to see that the rise of this "cancer" and the alt-right was a natural response to the rise of the extreme left throughout popular media and in society in general. There is nothing wrong with moderate conservatism, but when one must keep their conservative views in the closet, and anything conservative (on Reddit, Twitter, or simply at work) is seen as an inferior view point rather than just a differen…

Something that's popular is practically by definition not on the extreme any more. In most of the developed world the Democrats would be considered a moderate right-wing party, and the Republicans a far-right theocratic extremism party (like, say the DUP in the UK, or CHP in Canada). What you're seeing is a ground-shift in values, and what used to be considered OK is now considered extreme, and is therefore being shi…

Conservative views are treated as extreme, even though they are not and that's the point. /pol/ exists largely as a reaction to the suppression of non-progressive thought in the places where the demographic spends most of their time: academia, gaming, and tech.

There are certainly people who believe what they say on /pol/, but the vast majority of them are consciously acting as a parody of what they have been cast to be.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#76
There is no way to study 4chan. It's like an electron, if you measure it, it's position will change and you'll be back to the start.

the majority of /pol/ posts (about 84%) are either neutral or negative

They are looking at a board full of "trolls trolling trolls" as they like to put it and then coming to the conclusion that everyone is negative. The leap then is when it comes to tying it to hate speech in the same context as would be elsewhere.

“Nigger” is the most popular hate word, used in more than 2% of posts, while “faggot” and “retard” appear in over 1% of posts.

I submit, based on my experience with /b/ in the past, that there is a different context behind the use of these words on 4chan versus the rest of the world. In fact in both of those cases a poster, typically "OP" is called one of those terms, viscerally and without thought for content or demographic makeup (largely because it's not known). So for example if you post a picture that is silly or not particularly relevant then a string of "OP is a faggot" comments will commence in an almost ritualized manner.

Further, it's only in the rarest cases that someone from outside of 4chan finds their way to any one of the boards (not crawled by google AFAIK) and then posts something, not understanding the community, it's like metafilter in that way. It's a self selected group of trolls, hackers and curious people. So I think this study comes to the wrong conclusions:

However, we are confident that our findings can serve as a foundation for interesting and valuable future work exploring fringe groups like the alt-right, hate speech, and online harassment campaigns

Extremely doubtful. 4Chan would be considered a "Chaotic Neutral" character. They do terrible stuff and great stuff, but no group can harness it for their own purposes. "Not your personal Army" is a common theme - which the study didn't even pay attention to. If the group smells blood they will attack, no matter who it is or what cause, "4 teh lulz." I mean that's where "Anonymous" basically originated.

This is a great example of how embedding yourself into a culture is the only way to understand it - which these researchers didn't do.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#77
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that's popular is practically by definition not on the extreme any more. In most of the developed world the Democrats would be considered a moderate right-wing party, and the Republicans a far-right theocratic extremism party (like, say the DUP in the UK, or CHP in Canada). What you're seeing is a ground-shift in values, and what used to be considered OK is now considered extreme, and is therefore being shi…

Conservative views are treated as extreme, even though they are not and that's the point. /pol/ exists largely as a reaction to the suppression of non-progressive thought in the places where the demographic spends most of their time: academia, gaming, and tech. There are certainly people who believe what they say on /pol/, but the vast majority of them are consciously acting as a parody of what they have been cast to…

Conservative views are treated as extreme, even though they are not

Do you mean without regard to whether they are extreme or not or are you saying that no conservative views are extreme?

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#78
post #4

I'm definitely falling into the "X.com used to be so much better back then!!" trope but I really hate how much /pol/ culture spread throughout 4chan. I spent a lot of time between 2006-2014 on various boards like /a/, /mu/, /g/, and /int/ until suddenly everyone was an "SJW cuck" and everything was politicized/full of angry wannabe-right wingers. Made me quit the site (well, that and other things). Sometimes you just…

I feel like this about the Internet at large. Gone are the days when you could go a long time without reading this kind of hate, or even its more moderate variants.

It's not like this hate wasn't always there, but it's near-omnipresent now.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm definitely falling into the "X.com used to be so much better back then!!" trope but I really hate how much /pol/ culture spread throughout 4chan. I think most of us who grew up on 4chan since '04 feel the same. The cancer of /pol/ and the rise of the 'alt-right' completely took over the culture of the site. It's sad, but I can't bring myself to visit even the SFW boards anymore.

I hope its easy to see that the rise of this "cancer" and the alt-right was a natural response to the rise of the extreme left throughout popular media and in society in general. There is nothing wrong with moderate conservatism, but when one must keep their conservative views in the closet, and anything conservative (on Reddit, Twitter, or simply at work) is seen as an inferior view point rather than just a differen…

>There is nothing wrong with moderate conservatism

That's the real tragedy here. Intelligent conservative thought has been completely lost to the rhetorical insanity of our current political climate. For a perfect example of this take a look at what has become of the National Review.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much exposure to "extreme leftism" would you say you get on a day to day basis at your job, in your informal social interactions, etc.?

For me it's not so much the day to day interactions, which are largely apolitical[1], but the culture we consume. For example the latest E3 showcases had quite an emphasis on "diversity". On most days there will be some story about wage gap, harassment or other sexual missteps on the HN front page and various online newspapers. Now that's the daily surface stuff. This is not bad in itself most of the time. I do not d…

did we watch the same E3? When did an emphasis on diversity become an "extreme left" viewpoint? Why are you feeling threatened by efforts to undo some of the marginalization of URM in popular media? I don't understand why video game enthusiasts like yourself feel like they're being threatened by more women and minorities in your games - there's still plenty of white male characters and it's not a attack on your identity but more of a fairer redistribution of representation. believe it or not, it's not just nerdy white males who play video games nowadays.
Post reply on HN