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So you "just need a hacker", huh?

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Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#71
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wouldn't it be safe to assume that great people make great products?

Well, great product people make great products. But if they don't have great marketing people nobody will know.

from what I gather you seem to be saying is that great product people aren't as great as great marketers / biz people and that great product ppl/devs can't simultaneously have great marketing and biz skills too

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#72
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say you don't need brilliant marketing before you can make a product. Brilliant marketing can maximize the money you make off an idea, but you can make a great product with a small market. 37signals is a great example. They build products for them, since they know what they want. Of course, this doesn't work in a lot of situations. People who don't know how to write software need software too. To start a star…

I think that 37signals is the wrong example to pick here, they are where they are because of great marketing. There are loads of sites that do ajaxified to-do lists, a good hacker could probably code up their ta-da lists in a weekend. The reason they are popular is because they have attitide and great marketing skill. Just look at the number of submissions to YC news from their blog. And no ROR has nothing to do with…

I agree that a lot of their success has to do with great marketing, and I've never said that marketing isn't important. I believe, however, that 37Signals did very little market research when they started. They made products and then figured out how to get users, not the other way around. Now they're successful and can use that success to grow even faster.

You bootstrap with great products, not great marketing.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#73
post #44

This would be better if the half that consists of mere insults was replaced with some ideas. There's a lot more you could say about this phenomenon, like why it happens, and what the solution might be. Once again the top story is an embarrassment to News.YC. And unfortunately it is mostly the recently arrived users who voted it up. Maybe it's inevitable that I'll have to turn on some form of vote weighting.

Yeah, simple trust metric would be very nice here. Give more weight to people who vote like you and everything will be ranked as if you did it.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#74
post #44

This would be better if the half that consists of mere insults was replaced with some ideas. There's a lot more you could say about this phenomenon, like why it happens, and what the solution might be. Once again the top story is an embarrassment to News.YC. And unfortunately it is mostly the recently arrived users who voted it up. Maybe it's inevitable that I'll have to turn on some form of vote weighting.

Perhaps new accounts shouldn't be able to vote stories up (only comment, and vote on comments). Through usage, the account would then earn the right to vote -- the hope being that they would have enough time to learn the culture.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not start coding before you fleshed out the design? Not design until you've identified a market? Sounds like a recipe for never getting anything done. That might be the proper way to tackle things when you have a big upfront costs, but generally for software you can just start coding on things you find useful and interesting. If others are interested, great, you've got a company. If not you just have a useful product…

How can you create a useful product if you haven't identified the use?

luck in combination with the Max Strategy (continually trying different things all the time):

a lot of products did not identify their use before hand, or their real use was discovered accidentally after they were made.

post it notes - started as a failed adhesive. a coworker found that it worked well using it with paper and a gospel hymn book

snood - (a very popular puzzle bobble variant) the programmer made it because he was bored in grad school

linux - started as a hobby by a bored phd candidate

silly putty - a failed rubber substitute designed for WWII use

the list goes on...

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#76
post #12

It's hard to find a brilliant hacker. But it's equally hard to find a brilliant marketing guy, a brilliant sales guy or a brilliant CEO. While I don't disagree with the point of the post I think that many hackers should step back and look at how many great marketing people, CEO's etc. they know. The actual programming part is only a small part of starting a company, but many hackers seem to think it is all they need…

Great point. Your comment reminds me of a story we had here about a week ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=136087

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#77
post #44

This would be better if the half that consists of mere insults was replaced with some ideas. There's a lot more you could say about this phenomenon, like why it happens, and what the solution might be. Once again the top story is an embarrassment to News.YC. And unfortunately it is mostly the recently arrived users who voted it up. Maybe it's inevitable that I'll have to turn on some form of vote weighting.

I never expected it to get this high. The post was a rant and, as most rants do, turned out to be a bad idea.

I've temporarily replaced the rant with my more complete and restrained thoughts on the subject.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you create a useful product if you haven't identified the use?

luck in combination with the Max Strategy (continually trying different things all the time): a lot of products did not identify their use before hand, or their real use was discovered accidentally after they were made. post it notes - started as a failed adhesive. a coworker found that it worked well using it with paper and a gospel hymn book snood - (a very popular puzzle bobble variant) the programmer made it beca…

Perhaps better stated that a lot of products did not identify their eventual use beforehand. For your list the seed product had some utility:

* adhesive gives rise to postit * rubber alternative gives rise to silly putty * pedagogic device gives rise to game, kernel

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#79
post #77
post #44

This would be better if the half that consists of mere insults was replaced with some ideas. There's a lot more you could say about this phenomenon, like why it happens, and what the solution might be. Once again the top story is an embarrassment to News.YC. And unfortunately it is mostly the recently arrived users who voted it up. Maybe it's inevitable that I'll have to turn on some form of vote weighting.

I never expected it to get this high. The post was a rant and, as most rants do, turned out to be a bad idea. I've temporarily replaced the rant with my more complete and restrained thoughts on the subject.

The current link asks me to download a binary file when I click it in FF 2.0. Whats up with that?

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#80
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, great product people make great products. But if they don't have great marketing people nobody will know.

from what I gather you seem to be saying is that great product people aren't as great as great marketers / biz people and that great product ppl/devs can't simultaneously have great marketing and biz skills too

What I'm saying is that we should all try to get along and try to respect each others skills.

That's all :-)

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