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Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

bloomberg.com

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Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#71

Post by CuriouslyC »

Simulacra wrote: post #2

I'm cautious to say this is a good idea, but I'm also optimistic the private sector would be more efficient than the public sector.

Privatizing something does not magically make it more efficient. The market tends to produce more efficient solutions than government because it tries many different approaches simultaneously, and they compete against each other. This probably won't work for air traffic control because it will be so regulated that innovation will be impossible (if innovation was even possible there in the first place). Furthermore, I doubt that the air traffic control market will be highly competitive - regulation will probably drive the market to cartel conditions.

In all likelihood this will result in a small price decrease coupled with degraded service.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#72

Post by kwhitefoot »

rtx wrote: post #31
mullen wrote: post #14

> Donald Trump on Monday unveiled his proposal to hand over control of the U.S. air-traffic control system to a non-profit corporation, calling the current system an antiquated mess that doesn’t work and wastes money. Did someone point out to this idiot that we are having a string of years where there are no deaths in domestic commercial travel. Whatever is happening in the US Traffic System appears to be working rea…

These people are not being fired, just being transferred to a new company. I believe they will continue to perform at the same level. And with a non-gov entity we also get the benefit of optimal resource allocation. A win-win for everyone. Only reason of opposing this would be personal vendetta against Trump.

> with a non-gov entity we also get the benefit of optimal resource allocation

I can only assume that you have never worked for a large corporation.

Not to mention that the phrase 'optimal resource allocation' is ambiguous in the extreme; what function are you minimizing?

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#73

Post by kwhitefoot »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #29
dglass wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a non-profit corporation. This doesn't have anything to do with increasing shareholder value.

> This doesn't have anything to do with increasing shareholder value. > The plan drew immediate support from most airlines > the White House said the 13-member board of directors for the new corporation should be made up of appointees from industry stakeholder groups

How about having directors nominated by those who actually pay the bills, the passengers?

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#74

Post by Arzh »

kem wrote: post #25

A monolithic private institution doesn't inspire confidence in me any more than a monolithic public one. I don't see the purpose in switching one for the other, and would probably rather see it run by the government. If it was replacing the current system with one where you had 12 different companies competing with one another, maybe so but I don't really see the benefit in what I'm reading. But I don't feel strongly…

What do you see these companies competing for?

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#75

Post by CuriouslyC »

tssva wrote: post #63
d0lph wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private organizations are more efficient than governmental ones. Ideally the way they are managed/regulated will remain the same. It would be really neat to see some innovation here as well, with governmental agencies there really isn't an incentive to break the status quo. edit: If you're downvoting at least comment with why you think this isn't the case

Over the last 30 years I have worked for or with for profit corporations, government agencies and the type of non-profit government formed corporation being discussed here. In general I haven't found for profit corporations to be intrinsically more efficient than government agencies of the same scope of mission. In fact many have been less efficient than the government agencies I have worked with. And many of the lea…

I like the idea of government established nonprofits in theory, but as an additional option rather than the only choice. The idea is that they serve as a guard against excessive profiteering by private sector organizations. Municipal broadband networks are a good example of this in practice.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#76

Post by mmirate »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #66
mmirate wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A monolithic private institution doesn't inspire confidence in me any more than a monolithic public one. I don't see the purpose in switching one for the other, and would probably rather see it run by the government. Indeed; this is why almost all "let's privatize X " initiatives are ultimately pointless (or perhaps even counterproductive). They merely shift the monopoly-holder from public-sector to private-sector,…

In some circumstances > the private sector's legendary efficiency advantage is in fact: the private sector's _mythical_ efficiency advantage

Right; my point is that your "some" circumstances are precisely those under which there is no competitive pressure.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#77

Post by icebraining »

rtx wrote: post #54
icebraining wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

with a non-gov entity we also get the benefit of optimal resource allocation How do you figure?

Not referencing a whole field dedicated to this. Just sharing an anecdote. My father works for a government mining company. His job is that of a translator. Now no one use the language he was supposed to translate from. So he goes to office does some stuff and come backs home. We get govt housing and energy, medical (children till 25 and employees parent till death, two paid yearly holidays for the whole family.

And it pains you that the mine isn't privatized so that the new CEO can fire your father and buy himself an extra yacht?

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#78

Post by oh_sigh »

mullen wrote: post #65
oh_sigh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're the idiot, if you think that passenger fatalities is the only metric that matters(note: it matters a lot!) How can you know how well the US ATC is operating if you don't know how much money they spend? If they spent 10x what they currently do(but still had no passenger fatalities), would you say everything is great?

The average person can reasonably afford to buy a plane ticket to travel across the US. Right now, the odds of them dying is really low. In fact, so low that driving to the airport puts them in more danger than flying across the country. We can take that system and throw it out and see if we can change it with zero guarantee of success to save all of $5 or maybe $10 (Just a guess). I don't know about you, but I am ha…

You don't even know how much the current system costs, how can you be happy with it? This goes back to my statement about perhaps you are the idiot. Not because you are against this move by Trump, but because you have a strong opinion on it while knowing almost nothing about the system in question.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#79

Post by agumonkey »

freehunter wrote: post #16
mmanfrin wrote: post #8

Why . I don't get this at all. Why privatize? What is the benefit? All I see this doing is decreasing safety.

Seems to have worked for Canada. Non-profit private sector organization, and they don't seem to have any more air disasters than anywhere else.

Interesting. The famous example is UK private railways that became bad very quickly. Again Canada is balanced.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#80

Post by komali2 »

ericfrederich wrote: post #3

My guess is that he has some personal vendetta against them for something that happened causing him to be delayed 5 minutes on his private jet.

It would have to have been from before his presidency - he doesn't fly around on a private jet anymore but a US Air Force plane that, not only because of the fact of it being a military plane, but also because it is the most important military plane when he's on it, is the exception to most air traffic control rules.
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