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Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

theguardian.com

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Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#71

Post by faragon »

bcncit wrote: post #70
faragon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a Spanish citizen, as there is no such thing as per-city citizenship in Spain. BTW, you can twist the words at your convenience, if that makes you happy.

Currently, I am technically a Spanish citizen. I like people from Spain, their food and their culture, and I even find it kind of cool that they have a king, although I do not feel he is my king in any way. When I watch a soccer game with the Spain's national team I can equally celebrate a goal scored by them or against them if I like the goal. With Catalonia's national team (who only are allowed to play once a year)…

You can believe in whatever you want, have aversion to symbols, think how special you are vs other co-citizens, etc.: your free-speech is protected by the Spanish Constitution, the UE, and the UN. Mine is protected, too, and in my opinion the Catalan region culture is pretty similar to the culture of the rest of Spain, and the ones painting the Catalan region as "different", in the ethic sense, lie, or simply don't consider the majority of the Catalan population as human beings having the same rights (check Catalan people family-names: are in the same proportion as the rest of Spain; you can check also religion, gastronomy, even trash-TV show taste is similar to the Spanish average, etc.).

Regarding the "Catalan people", I am "Catalan people", too, and the only oppression I see in the Catalan region is the one pushed by the Catalan regional government towards forcing uniform ethnic brainwash from public administration and schools, in Catalan-only, instead of bilingual Spanish-Catalan. A reminder: not only Catalan-speakers -mother tongue- (35% of inhabitants of the Catalan region) have rights, Spanish-speakers (55% of inhabitants of the Catalan region) have rights, too. So next time you fight for your rights, be sure you're really fighting for your rights (I would endorse you), and not for quitting/removing/stealing other people's rights (I would not endorse you). Respect works both ways.

Kind regards.

Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#72

Post by bcncit »

faragon wrote: post #71
bcncit wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, I am technically a Spanish citizen. I like people from Spain, their food and their culture, and I even find it kind of cool that they have a king, although I do not feel he is my king in any way. When I watch a soccer game with the Spain's national team I can equally celebrate a goal scored by them or against them if I like the goal. With Catalonia's national team (who only are allowed to play once a year)…

You can believe in whatever you want, have aversion to symbols, think how special you are vs other co-citizens, etc.: your free-speech is protected by the Spanish Constitution, the UE, and the UN. Mine is protected, too, and in my opinion the Catalan region culture is pretty similar to the culture of the rest of Spain, and the ones painting the Catalan region as "different", in the ethic sense, lie, or simply don't c…

Sorry, I believe I misunderstood you. I thought you were _against_ granting the right of self-determination to Catalan people, that is, the people who lives in Catalonia whatever language they speak. I did not catch that you endorsed fighting for rights.

Just wanted to clarify that I do not particularly support all Catalan Government policies, in fact, just a few of them.

There are many important other rights that need to be addressed such as the right to die with dignity (this is long overdue) or the right receiving education in your language, at least for major languages such as Catalan, Spanish, Arabic or English.

Please note that this is not an issue only local to Barcelona, this is an issue that also face people who speak Catalan, English or Arabic at home and live, for example, in Madrid and only receive education in Spanish (is that also "uniform ethnic brainwash"!?).

My guess is that authorizities in Barcelona or Madrid do not grant this right as to avoid segregation, but we will not know unless they try it and see actual segregation. The other alternative of teaching everybody evenly in all significant languages in our society (Catalan, Spanish, Arabic and English) might overwhelm kids.

I'm not sure if you have any actual experience with the Catalan education system or just read about it on the yellow press and that build your opinion to define it "uniform etnic brainwash". Would you share if you have any actual experience with it and what impact it had on you or your children?

In my actual experience, my three children have been fully exposed to the "uniform ethnic brainwash" Catalan education and IMHO, their Spanish is better than their Catalan is, even when we speak Catalan at home. They have some knowledge of English, but they have no knowledge of Arabic.

Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#73

Post by faragon »

bcncit wrote: post #72
faragon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can believe in whatever you want, have aversion to symbols, think how special you are vs other co-citizens, etc.: your free-speech is protected by the Spanish Constitution, the UE, and the UN. Mine is protected, too, and in my opinion the Catalan region culture is pretty similar to the culture of the rest of Spain, and the ones painting the Catalan region as "different", in the ethic sense, lie, or simply don't c…

Sorry, I believe I misunderstood you. I thought you were _against_ granting the right of self-determination to Catalan people, that is, the people who lives in Catalonia whatever language they speak. I did not catch that you endorsed fighting for rights. Just wanted to clarify that I do not particularly support all Catalan Government policies, in fact, just a few of them. There are many important other rights that ne…

You can twist the words whatever you want, if that makes you happy. The self-determination right is only for very specific cases according the UN, and the Catalan region does not qualify for that. Also, the EU representatives have been very clear in that regard, as being an internal issue of Spain, and the Spanish Parliament already voted, including a majority of Catalan representatives, against a hypothetical secession, because being against the Constitution. For being short, I do support the Spanish Constitution, the rule of law, the Spanish government, the European Union, the NATO, and the United Nations.

Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#74

Post by bcncit »

faragon wrote: post #73
bcncit wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I believe I misunderstood you. I thought you were _against_ granting the right of self-determination to Catalan people, that is, the people who lives in Catalonia whatever language they speak. I did not catch that you endorsed fighting for rights. Just wanted to clarify that I do not particularly support all Catalan Government policies, in fact, just a few of them. There are many important other rights that ne…

You can twist the words whatever you want, if that makes you happy. The self-determination right is only for very specific cases according the UN, and the Catalan region does not qualify for that. Also, the EU representatives have been very clear in that regard, as being an internal issue of Spain, and the Spanish Parliament already voted, including a majority of Catalan representatives, against a hypothetical secess…

The very same could be said about women being able to vote, same sex marriage or in the US a black guy using the same restrooms as white people or being the POTUS.

All these things were illegal by laws backed and supported by the highest, most sensible and most respected authorities back in the time, even during centuries.

But it was the determination of people to be able to make all these illegal things fully legal nowadays. This is progress.

If people wants, anything is possible. Laws are to serve people, and if they do not work, they should be changed.

People can even change a constitution.

To help you fully understand the context, the Spanish constitution was written only 3 years after a military dictatorship that lasted 40 years (2 generations) with many people afraid of the military coming back and the police charging in people's demonstrations.

I do not know if you ever have had to run in a demonstration with a policeman running behind you with a gun with a clear intent to shoot you. I did and believe me, it is really scary. You even develop a sense of foreigness for certain symbols.

The Spanish constitution can and should be changed to meet the needs of people in the 21st century. The one we have now is the bastard child of the turmoil after the military dictatorship.

Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#75

Post by faragon »

bcncit wrote: post #74
faragon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can twist the words whatever you want, if that makes you happy. The self-determination right is only for very specific cases according the UN, and the Catalan region does not qualify for that. Also, the EU representatives have been very clear in that regard, as being an internal issue of Spain, and the Spanish Parliament already voted, including a majority of Catalan representatives, against a hypothetical secess…

The very same could be said about women being able to vote, same sex marriage or in the US a black guy using the same restrooms as white people or being the POTUS. All these things were illegal by laws backed and supported by the highest, most sensible and most respected authorities back in the time, even during centuries. But it was the determination of people to be able to make all these illegal things fully legal…

The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights. Even in more recent times, e.g. in 1955 the US Constitution protected Rosa Parks against those same xenophobic supremacists that lost the American Civil War, and were using their regional power in order to impose ethnic totalitarianism. So think your argument twice, and think if you're really on the side of the "good ones", defending individual rights, or on the ethnic totalitarian side, defending "tradition" vs civil rights. Another example: the National Guard (US Army) forced the acceptance of black students, in order to ensure their rights, honoring the US Constitution, and the rule of law. In the same way, I hope the Spain Constitution will prevail, ensuring the rights of the citizens. For the long term, I wish some kind of United States of Europe, for even better civil rights protection, against disloyal regional administrations with a hidden ethnic/separatist agenda against the rule of law (e.g. like current French and German legislations, where disloyal/separatist regional governments are explicitly forbidden in their Constitutions).

Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#76

Post by bcncit »

faragon wrote: post #75
bcncit wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very same could be said about women being able to vote, same sex marriage or in the US a black guy using the same restrooms as white people or being the POTUS. All these things were illegal by laws backed and supported by the highest, most sensible and most respected authorities back in the time, even during centuries. But it was the determination of people to be able to make all these illegal things fully legal…

The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights. Even in more recent times, e.g. in 1955 the US Constitution protected Rosa Parks against those same xenophobic supremacists that lost the American Civil War, and were using their regional power in order to impose ethnic totalitarianism. So think your argument twice, and think i…

I love immigration. I loved it when it was people from Spain 30 or 40 years ago and I love it now from other countries, such as Morocco, China, Pakistan or Europe, both legal and illegal. I helped illegal immigrants with their paperwork to become legal immigrants. I do believe that the avalanche of ex-pats that decided to settle in Barcelona in the last 50-years has allowed Catalans to enjoy a more cosmopolitan environment. I even hired some of these ex-pats.

I thought about twice per your request, and I'm afraid that with my support for Catalonia's self-determination rights I'm defending individual rights. Otherwise, I would become the first ethnic totalitarian on Earth who loved immigration and helped immigrants to settle.

How do you like immigration yourself? I'm asking because the Head of the Partido Popular (Spanish central government) in Catalonia hates it [1], he is a declared xenophobe and such proneness to xenophobia often permeates to other supporters of Partido Popular and similar right-wing parties.

[1] http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2015/07/28/catalunya/1438078282_...

Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#77

Post by PopsiclePete »

horsecaptin wrote: post #52
PopsiclePete wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The streets aren't painted with tourist messaging. Some streets have some anti-tourist graffiti. Teenage edge-lord shitheads are a world-wide phenomenon. If you don't want to visit Barcelona because of some graffiti, you'd better stay inside your house 24/7 in Chicago for fear of being shot.

You won't find anti-tourist graffiti in Chicago, New York, LA, San Francisco, or Las Vegas.

Sorry, but Chicago and LA aren't of the same "caliber" as Barcelona is, when it comes to "tourist city". Unless you've been to Paris in August or Barcelona...any time of year....you don't know what I mean.

Of course it's not weird to see tourists in NYC or San Fran but tourists are literally everywhere in popular European cities. In Paris, in the summer, it feels like most of Japan and China decided to move there.

I've been in brew pubs in Barcelona where American English is coming out of 50% of the patrons.

So, no, it just doesn't compare.

Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#78

Post by kafkaesq »

faragon wrote: post #75
bcncit wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very same could be said about women being able to vote, same sex marriage or in the US a black guy using the same restrooms as white people or being the POTUS. All these things were illegal by laws backed and supported by the highest, most sensible and most respected authorities back in the time, even during centuries. But it was the determination of people to be able to make all these illegal things fully legal…

The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights. Even in more recent times, e.g. in 1955 the US Constitution protected Rosa Parks against those same xenophobic supremacists that lost the American Civil War, and were using their regional power in order to impose ethnic totalitarianism. So think your argument twice, and think i…

The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights.

Well, there was a bit more to it than that. If it had just been a matter of the Constitution being flaunted, and citizens being denied their rights... we might have just had a prolonged crisis, with a long period of generalized instability and violence towards minorities (kind of like we seem to be entering, in the present day).

But unfortunately the CSA had to go out of their way to initiate an all-out armed provocation with the Union, which basically forced the latter's hand, by that point. You know, this little ruckus:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter

In any case all this post-facto niceness about "protecting the Constitution" and all is -- just that. Invented after the fact, to help the nation recover from what was (at the time) one of the most devastating armed conflicts the planet had hitherto known.

Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#79

Post by [deleted] »

faragon wrote: post #47

No, because of tourist rentals are not enough for covering the local demand, the problem is 10x bigger. Regarding people needs, in my opinion the problem is that people in charge in local government (Barcelona city) is not focused in solving the problems, but in agitprop for increasing their own power (currently the extreme-left is governing Barcelona in minority). Also, regional government (Catalonia) is focused in…

[deleted]

Re: Barcelona cracks down on Airbnb rentals with illegal apartment squads

#80

Post by dang »

faragon wrote: post #47

No, because of tourist rentals are not enough for covering the local demand, the problem is 10x bigger. Regarding people needs, in my opinion the problem is that people in charge in local government (Barcelona city) is not focused in solving the problems, but in agitprop for increasing their own power (currently the extreme-left is governing Barcelona in minority). Also, regional government (Catalonia) is focused in…

The sort of internecine political battle that you and bcncit took this thread into definitely does not belong on HN. Please don't do this again.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14473540 and marked it off-topic.

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