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Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

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Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#71
post #50
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you suggest the state gets the money to pay for titanium hips instead? (note as well the average wait of 4 months for a hip implant)

The money came from taxes, but taxes must be progressive. To tax the same to all people regardless of their income is unfair (and to punish people when they purchase goods and services is clearly stupid). Take in mind also that you need to advance the VAT to the government each three months. Including money that could be still unpaid to you (or worse, that will never be paid because some big clients can blackmail sma…

>"To tax the same to all people regardless of their income is unfair ..."

Is the income tax not progressive in Spain then? Everyone pays the same marginal tax rate?

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#72
post #2

> will likely involve a pay cut in absolute terms. In absolute terms, but take in mind that life in Spain can be much less expensive than living in Berlin or Paris. It depends on the area and the job. > I'm currently functional in Spanish but I have a long way to go until fluency. That's one of my goals in moving to Spain Madrid is the right option then. Has worst climate with more hot in summer and colder in winter,…

Quick note: Spaniard here, lived in Berlin for two years and I can assure you that Barcelona is significantly more expensive for a comparable way of life. Berlin is a particularly cheap place to live.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#73

Just a comment on the Spanish in Spain. They don't speak "Spanish" there, but a number of languages instead. Unless you want to learn Catalan, choose Madrid. Sure they understand Castellano but will prefer the local language. (BTW, this boggled the mind of my younger backpacker self from California who grew up on Mexican Spanish.)

I strongly disagree, you can work in Barcelona without knowing Catalan if you don't have a public facing job, like most tech-related duties are.

Spanish and Catalan are both official languages in Catalonia and everyone there understands and is able to speak Spanish (even more so than Catalan, given the amount of immigrants in Barcelona).

I'm from Spain and have lived in Barcelona without speaking Catalan at all, so don't spread misinformation.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#74

Just a comment on the Spanish in Spain. They don't speak "Spanish" there, but a number of languages instead. Unless you want to learn Catalan, choose Madrid. Sure they understand Castellano but will prefer the local language. (BTW, this boggled the mind of my younger backpacker self from California who grew up on Mexican Spanish.)

Catalan is not a local dialect—its a distinct language just like French, Italian, or Portuguese. There as many differences between Catalan and Castellano (which is literally "Spanish", no need for quotes there) as there are between Swedish and Norwegian, or Spanish and Portuguese.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#75
Not much to add to the wide variety of insightful comments here, but if you'd like an American comparison, Madrid would be more NYC (busy, finance, big co's HQs, cultural offer) and Barcelona would be California (sea, weather, hotter startup scene, more laid back).

Both are awesome and whatever you choose you can't go wrong.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#76
post #57
post #52

You can work in English in most tech companies in Madrid and Barcelona. In fact, if some company discard you because of that, it would be a good thing for you. I know people working for more than 10 years in Madrid and Barcelona with just English, without speaking Spanish (most people is not nationalist, so you'll not feel strong social push for learning the local language/s). In fact, most people will appreciate it,…

> salary is not the full salary... And a month or so each year of paid holidays, by contract, if you work in the same company for some time. This does not apply for freelancers or small temporal jobs, of course.

Yes, right. Contractors/freelancers, despite having universal health-care coverage like salaried people, don't have paid holidays. Anyway, you can make lots of money as contractor working in Madrid or Barcelona (six figure income, before taxes). E.g. doing the exactly same work you can make 2-3x as contractor.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#77
post #52

You can work in English in most tech companies in Madrid and Barcelona. In fact, if some company discard you because of that, it would be a good thing for you. I know people working for more than 10 years in Madrid and Barcelona with just English, without speaking Spanish (most people is not nationalist, so you'll not feel strong social push for learning the local language/s). In fact, most people will appreciate it,…

Absolute number wise, it's probably hard to beat the united states. Life quality wise, probably that changes.

I make well above the ranges you were mentioning in the US, and still feel poor in comparison :)

If your end game is to come back to USA after 2-3 years, it might be ok. But if you want to come back after 20-30 years, you might be losing on quite a lot of income.

That assumes, you know, you want to work as an employee for that time. All bets are off if you want to start your own company.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#78
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money came from taxes, but taxes must be progressive. To tax the same to all people regardless of their income is unfair (and to punish people when they purchase goods and services is clearly stupid). Take in mind also that you need to advance the VAT to the government each three months. Including money that could be still unpaid to you (or worse, that will never be paid because some big clients can blackmail sma…

>"To tax the same to all people regardless of their income is unfair ..." Is the income tax not progressive in Spain then? Everyone pays the same marginal tax rate?

VAT is a tax of different nature. Is a trick from governments to be able to tax children and elders for example. Everybody pays the same VAT for the same product.

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#79
post #2

> will likely involve a pay cut in absolute terms. In absolute terms, but take in mind that life in Spain can be much less expensive than living in Berlin or Paris. It depends on the area and the job. > I'm currently functional in Spanish but I have a long way to go until fluency. That's one of my goals in moving to Spain Madrid is the right option then. Has worst climate with more hot in summer and colder in winter,…

Catalan is not going to be a problem. Most people in Barcelona has Spanish as mother tongue. Catalan is more popular in the countryside. The Catalan nationalism is everywhere in the public sphere (public administration, public schools, traffic) because of regional government in hands of Catalan nationalists/separatists. Fortunately, private companies have not that imposition, and commom sense rules: most things are in Spanish and English. Of course, some people -including myself- speak in Catalan with other people, but switch immediately to Spanish or English so no one feels excluded.

If you're thinking about investing in Barcelona, and having fears about the separatist movement: don't worry, it is not going to happen. In that regard Barcelona is pretty much like London: separatists are a minority, being the separatist power in the countryside. So before the Catalan region of Spain becoming independent, Barcelona would remain as part of Spain (in the improbable case of all Spanish citizens agreed about allowing a "Clarity Act" like in Canada, so if Spain could be divided, any separatist region could be divided as well -that would be going "nuclear" against separatists that consider the Catalan region of Spain as "indivisible"-). So independence chance is 0, in my opinion. I hope Catalan nationalism will reduce its influence once their leaders pass through the court (corruption cases), and everything gets back to normal, with bilingüism/trilingüism in the schools and public administration, instead of current de-facto Catalan monolingual stuff in the public sphere. If after that you still have doubts, invest in Madrid first, and think about Barcelona once the political scene gets more rational (I love Barcelona, don't get me wrong).

Re: Ask HN: What are the Madrid and Barcelona tech scenes like?

#80
post #66

Hello. Barcelona native here, lived and worked for years in the NY tech scene and now I am in London, although I go back to Barcelona often, and I'm seriously considering moving back. (I don't know the situation in Madrid well enough). Here are my points: On the one hand, the tech ecosystem is clearly not as strong as Berlin/London or even Paris, and the average engineer salary is _low_. That also might mean there is…

The thing is, BCN is mostly as expensive as Berlin, but salaries seem considerably lower for developers. I love BCN, but prefer to work and live in Berlin and visit BCN once or twice a year. Berlin has a lot to offer as well, certainly no beach and pretty bad winters though.

That is all true. I really love Berlin and I consider it as much an option as Barcelona, or better. The amount of culture and stimulating things happening is incredible, plus the most liberal city and the most interesting tech scene in Europe (sorry London). The weather has the worst of NYC and the worst of London together though.
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