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When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival

nytimes.com

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Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival

#71

Post by education2020 »

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Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival

#73

Post by flippyhead »

kevinalexbrown wrote: post #50

I remember once from undergrad the saying '"obvious" is the most dangerous word in mathematics.' Seeing how something could be true is dramatically different from identifying and defending that it is true. It's dangerously easy to say "oh yea, makes sense, natural selection happens by mating so if mates choose club wings, I get it. Obvious." But Prum's trying to go a step further, and test just how far out of balance…

What I've understood is that if the change that's detrimental is compensated for by other attributes that do connote fitness this can be an evolutionarily stable strategy. That is, if the the bird is able to survive even with the club wings that is in fact an indication of relative fitness and the club wings can be selected for. Though I've only heard this theory in reference to things like bulking/attractive plumage that itself connotes some kind of fitness. For example, those birds with crazy long tails are arguably less able to hunt or whatever but the ones that do hunt effectively cause the female to think: wow so attractive! And he can manage to provide.

Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival

#74

Post by emmelaich »

zethraeus wrote: post #46
sewercake wrote: post #14

reminded me of a much more interesting article I read a few years ago on the same subject: https://www.edge.org/conversation/richard_prum-duck-sex-aest...

A conversation with the author of this piece.

Which makes the article even more perplexing.

Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival

#75

Post by emmelaich »

Analemma_ wrote: post #33
lapsock wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the author of this article or his sources severely misunderstand natural selection and the special case of sexual selection. The author of this article is an Evolutionary Biology researcher at Yale. It would be really weird if he severely misunderstood natural selection.

It's not a Hacker News thread unless there are a bunch of computer programmers telling people with PhD's how ignorant they are about their own field.

Well said and funny but it won't stop me piling on :-) ....

> Even the peafowl has a longer tail than she needs.

Surely he means peahen, the female peafowl (of which the male peacock has the extraordinarily long tail.)

Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival

#76

Post by shaq_hammer »

shaq_hammer wrote: post #62
cmahler7 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and guys prefer women with large breasts and wide hips, both unnecessary due to baby formula and C-Sections. Doesn't change the fact that preferring those traits are ingrained in us due to thousands of years of evolution and aren't changing any time soon. Worry about what you have control over you'll be happier

Breastfeeding is much better for the baby's development than formula

This is just a plain fact, why downvote it?

Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival

#77

Post by h0l0cube »

lisper wrote: post #3

The puzzlement over the apparent reproductive disadvantages of wing-singing is simply a reflection of a misunderstanding of how evolution works. Evolution does not select for the reproductive fitness of species, it selects for the reproductive fitness of genes . And it does not select for the absolute fitness of genes, but rather for their fitness relative to competing alleles with respect to a particular environment…

"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg." Samuel Butler, Life and Habit

Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival

#78

Post by flamedoge »

panzer_wyrm wrote: post #68

The human females find sense of humor attractive. That requires development of big brain. Think how shitty big brain is - it soaks up nutrition, takes insane amounts of protein to develop, makes the infant helpless for 12 years, diverts resources from muscle mass and bone, makes easier death during childbirth and permanently diminishes the ability of the mother to gather food. This species is doomed by the chasing of…

well we're the first to defy Darwinism despite of having all those negative traits.

Re: When sexual selection can lead to a decline in the capacity for survival

#79

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