Why Germany Educates International Students for Free • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#71

Post by MarkMc » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 6:15 PM UTC

If you are a young person living in a poor country, the two best investments you can make to improve your standard of living are (a) get a university education; and (b) immigrate to a rich country.

Germany offers both:

1. A free undergraduate university degree

2. For every graduate: 18 month work visa after graduation

3. For every STEM graduate who earns more than EUR 40,000 per year: approval to work in Germany forever (ie. a 'blue card')

Yes, you must first learn German, have good high school grades and be able to borrow EUR 9,000 to apply for the student visa. But for millions of people living in third-world countries that is achievable and a great investment given the enormous returns on offer.

So why isn't Germany flooded with foreign university students?

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#72

Post by tmalsburg2 » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 6:15 PM UTC

MarkMc wrote: post #70

Is there a fixed quota for the number of international students studying at German universities? That is, if the number of international student applications doubled would it make it harder for German students to be accepted into university?

To my knowledge there is no quota either for foreign students or students in general. If we'd get twice as many applications in one year, we have to fit twice as many people in the lecture halls. In Germany, education is actually a right and a lot of people sue their way into universities when they are rejected based on their grades.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#73

Post by paganel » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 6:22 PM UTC

MarkMc wrote: post #71

If you are a young person living in a poor country, the two best investments you can make to improve your standard of living are (a) get a university education; and (b) immigrate to a rich country. Germany offers both: 1. A free undergraduate university degree 2. For every graduate: 18 month work visa after graduation 3. For every STEM graduate who earns more than EUR 40,000 per year: approval to work in Germany fore…

> Yes, you must first learn German,

Maybe because of this?

> be able to borrow EUR 9,000 to apply for the student visa

Also, this. 9,000 euros does not seem like too much for people from first-world countries, but for people coming from relatively speaking much poorer countries that sum is quite high.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#74

Post by patates » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC

Boothroid wrote: post #51

aphextron wrote: post #23

Should I study engineering in Germany? I'm looking at undergrad programs in California right now and the numbers don't add up for me. Not just tuition, but cost of living as a full time student as well. I also feel like it would be much easier for me (a non-traditional student) to get into a better university over there, as they pretty much just look at your test scores. Not all this GPA/extra-curricular "well rounde…

Netherlands might be worth looking at. TU Delft has a very good reputation and links with Shell. Also Dutch is easier to learn than German, so they say, and everyone speaks English in NL anyway! Also I seem to recall hearing that they were considering switching over to teaching completely in English for some courses.

> and everyone speaks English in NL anyway!

I would think that you were exaggerating but when I was in Amsterdam once I truly was amazed that actually everyone could speak English. In Germany, especially in Berlin, it's not like Netherlands but most people also do. The biggest difference is Germans are really shy about speaking a different language so they first try speaking German really slowly with hand gestures even when they speak English much better than I do :)

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#75

Post by patates » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 6:35 PM UTC

qznc wrote: post #56

aphextron wrote: post #23

Should I study engineering in Germany? I'm looking at undergrad programs in California right now and the numbers don't add up for me. Not just tuition, but cost of living as a full time student as well. I also feel like it would be much easier for me (a non-traditional student) to get into a better university over there, as they pretty much just look at your test scores. Not all this GPA/extra-curricular "well rounde…

In general, getting into a german university is easy with good grades and still possible otherwise. It varies a lot between universities and subjects though. Bachelor level is usually in german. Master level can be done in english but much is in german, too. Without knowing the german language you will have a hard time. If you know the basics in advance and take a language course here, you should be fine. Accredited…

I did my masters here in Germany and in English. My professor was really not pleased when I told him I would write my thesis also in English as I thought my German level still wasn't adequate.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#76

Post by patates » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 6:39 PM UTC

qznc wrote: post #60

detaro wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least Aachen (haven't been to the others recently) I wouldn't count as "less attractive to live in", unless your idea of attractive requires "is a large city" (and some are not that far away, and students get "free" train tickets there)

I prefer Karlsruhe to Munich. Karlsruhe is one of the warmest cities in Germany.

I would have preferred Hamburg.

I guess this makes "enough" evidence that German cities have character and one should visit before deciding where to study.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#77

Post by MarkMc » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #73

MarkMc wrote: post #71

If you are a young person living in a poor country, the two best investments you can make to improve your standard of living are (a) get a university education; and (b) immigrate to a rich country. Germany offers both: 1. A free undergraduate university degree 2. For every graduate: 18 month work visa after graduation 3. For every STEM graduate who earns more than EUR 40,000 per year: approval to work in Germany fore…

> Yes, you must first learn German, Maybe because of this? > be able to borrow EUR 9,000 to apply for the student visa Also, this. 9,000 euros does not seem like too much for people from first-world countries, but for people coming from relatively speaking much poorer countries that sum is quite high.

Even if the requirements make it impossible for 95% of people, that still leaves millions for whom it is possible.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#78

Post by gumby » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 7:52 PM UTC

One thing to consider is the very trade-focused nature of the degree.

My son is a German citizen, educated until high school in the German language, but he enrolled in a US university. Why? The US system offers a broader education at the undergraduate level. In fact there aren't undergraduate medical or law degrees the way there are in Germany (where you graduate and start practicing / start residency).

Honestly I think this distinction is part of a cluster of characteristics that make the US more entrepreneurial than Germany(and why I'd rather drive a German car than an American).

(This isn't an argument that one country is better than the other, just that they've picked different local maxima on various issues. FWIW I'm not a citizen of either).

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#79

Post by aphextron » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 7:55 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #78

One thing to consider is the very trade-focused nature of the degree. My son is a German citizen, educated until high school in the German language, but he enrolled in a US university. Why? The US system offers a broader education at the undergraduate level. In fact there aren't undergraduate medical or law degrees the way there are in Germany (where you graduate and start practicing / start residency). Honestly I th…

>Honestly I think this distinction is part of a cluster of characteristics that make the US more entrepreneurial than Germany(and why I'd rather drive a German car than an American).

There's a bit of trade off involved with this though. Not everyone is suited for entrepreneurship, nor would a healthy economy encourage most people to become entrepreneurs. The stable middle class of highly trained, well paid technical workers in Germany is precisely what the US needs right now. It seems that both systems could benefit from each other's strengths. A liberal education founded in general studies is valuable for many, but most people will spend their lives working technical jobs.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#80

Post by hiram112 » Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 9:55 PM UTC

MarkMc wrote: post #63

aphextron wrote: post #23

Should I study engineering in Germany? I'm looking at undergrad programs in California right now and the numbers don't add up for me. Not just tuition, but cost of living as a full time student as well. I also feel like it would be much easier for me (a non-traditional student) to get into a better university over there, as they pretty much just look at your test scores. Not all this GPA/extra-curricular "well rounde…

I don't think there are any German undergraduate programs that are entirely in English - you will most like need to learn German to CEF level C1 to pass the German university entrance exam (Feststellungsprüfung). This is a useful website to determine whether your high school qualifications are enough to attend a German university: https://www.uni-assist.de/zulassungsvoraussetzungen/index.ph...

As someone who's learned (and forgotten) a few foreign languages, including German, the requirement for a C1 level in German would be pretty damn high, especially since Germans are rather strict on grammar (im not going there... ;)

In other words, someone trying to save money on tuition via a German undergrad would be trading a LOT of time and energy to learn German in exchange for the tuition.

I suppose this is part of the reason for allowing foreigners free education.