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Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

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Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#71

Post by Mz »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

So, no one was really able to answer my question last thread. In fact, I mostly got snarky condescending replies. I've stopped caring about such things though, so hopefully good-faith questions are still welcome: What's wrong with Uber tracking Lyft drivers? What is wrong with using a competitor's API to get real-time tactical information about them? Not only did it not harm Lyft drivers, but it actually aided them:…

My opinion: This is not about the drivers. They were engaging in activity intended to be actively hostile to a competitor. That is why this is wrong.

It is one thing to build a competitive business. It is another to try to actively undermine the competition, and not because your service is simply better.

I get rather tired of a world in which "Well, technically, it didn't break any existing rules, so it should be okay, right?" gets used to justify all kinds of ugly stuff. We live in a world that our existing laws were not designed to account for because it hadn't been invented yet, nor even imagined. It is almost like saying "Well, if we invented magic and used magic to murder people, hey, we should be allowed to get away with murder because our current laws don't have clauses that address the use of magic, amirite??!!"

Uh, no. You are not right. And I hope we will develop laws and rules that spell out that you are not right.

Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#72

Post by cooper12 »

jansho wrote: post #27

One after the other. To put a conspiracy/playful hat on - seriously this is not my serious opinion - could it be that Uber is getting set up? Not necessarily framed but "oops, this just got leaked" set of dominoes. Apparently quite a few people are mad at Uber, like Apple, and Google, and the taxi drivers ...

It's more like their competitors were always encouraging and spreading the negative press, and eventually it reached a tipping point that emboldened insiders to speak out and everyone went all out because it's a scandal and a way to be vindicated against Uber.

Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#73

Post by jansho »

alexbeloi wrote: post #70
jansho wrote: post #27

One after the other. To put a conspiracy/playful hat on - seriously this is not my serious opinion - could it be that Uber is getting set up? Not necessarily framed but "oops, this just got leaked" set of dominoes. Apparently quite a few people are mad at Uber, like Apple, and Google, and the taxi drivers ...

I would guess it's a combination of intentional leaks and reporters smelling blood in the water. Maybe also the upper management did something to lose the favor of people that would normally protect them from these kind of events (big investors). Or at least put a stop to them. Something to note is that half (3/6) of Uber's board members are internal (Uber employees). So perhaps Kalanick is under no pressure of being…

> are resorting to leaking bad press, in the hope that external pressure will force a change.

Well I'll hang my hat now and grab my pitchfork to join the mob...

Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#74

Post by vkou »

idoh wrote: post #64
vkou wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just send the rockets up, where they come down is not my department. Why do people build weapons? Why do people pay taxes, that are used to fund immoral actions? Why do people provide services to immoral actors? Typically, the answer is money.

On the tax side, we neither have control over whether to pay taxes nor how it is spent, so that's not a reasonable example.

You could always move to a country which does not spend your money on behavior you object to.

Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#75

Post by dave5104 »

nodesocket wrote: post #17
dave5104 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Uber should stop doing negative things then.

You think the same about United and now American? Perhaps it just that the outraged minority now have a louder voice. There is a financial benefit for them writing negative articles, outrage/scandal draws in viewers.

Yes, absolutely. I do in fact think United should not be directing law enforcement to drag their customers off their planes.

I haven't heard of American being in the news lately--so can't comment on any wrongdoing that they've been up to.

Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#76

Post by dave5104 »

Neliquat wrote: post #39
dave5104 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Uber should stop doing negative things then.

You know it can be both...

Sure, I wouldn't be surprised if some reporter at TechCrunch had a vendetta against Uber.

But I have been barely getting much of my Uber news from TechCrunch lately. So either the entire tech media has a vendetta against Uber, or it's not both.

Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#77

Post by pthreads »

rglover wrote: post #43
dinedal wrote: post #28

How does anyone, when asked to build such a program, not raise an objection, or say something? The ethical compromise made on behalf of all involved is startling, if this is true.

It starts with "M" and ends with "oney."

More Money!!!!

Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#78

Post by fencepost »

wbl wrote: post #65
fencepost wrote: post #46

I'm not sure that a Lyft driver suing has as much bad potential for Uber as a class action of former Uber drivers. Given the reported churn there's likely a significant pool of those drivers, and since Uber apparently considers both Lyft and McDonald's as competitors, it seems likely that many of them are not feeling wealthy. IIRC the previous coverage noted that Uber was providing incentives to drivers who were usin…

How is it actionable? Uber is under no obligation to give any driver rides. Favoring ones with a better BATNA is just good business.

This would likely depend on the terms of the contract with the drivers and on what statements if any were made to drivers about how rides were allocated, prioritized, etc.

If the drivers had been led to believe that ride allocation was "fair" (based on distance, predicted arrival time, etc.) or under their control (based on rides being presented to multiple drivers and assigned to the first responder) then finding that it was actually weighted in favor of people driving for Lyft might be a problem for them.

This also goes back to the principle of "anyone can sue for anything" as long as it's not frivolous, and this doesn't seem like it'd be considered such. A suit might not be successful, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't at least considered.

Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#79

Post by superkuh »

RegEx wrote: post #41
zvpxdlk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you set up a server to respond to only people you choose, it's on you to make sure it's only people you choose that use it. Then you can make any restrictions you want and invalidate access for anyone who goes against your rules

In other words, every hack is legal?

If you believe accessing a URL manually, incrementing a number in a URL, or using wget is a hack, yes. At least you'd be in agreement with the US Dept. of Justice in that.

The web is open. If you put your a chair out in a public square with a sign on that back that says, "Only paying members can sit." don't be surprised when someone random sits in it.

Re: Uber gets sued over alleged ‘Hell’ program to track Lyft drivers

#80

Post by killin_dan »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

So, no one was really able to answer my question last thread. In fact, I mostly got snarky condescending replies. I've stopped caring about such things though, so hopefully good-faith questions are still welcome: What's wrong with Uber tracking Lyft drivers? What is wrong with using a competitor's API to get real-time tactical information about them? Not only did it not harm Lyft drivers, but it actually aided them:…

Its against the competitive spirit of business. Like if I'm trying to run the best taxi service and someone runs a better one, that's fine, but if someone is stalking my driver's and spying on them, that's bullshit. It's cheating.

Uber is capable of running the best service on a merit basis. Cheating this way is just childish and should be corrected immediately imo.

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