Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had the same thought, if he had a solution then he should have it by now.
His critical error is evident in his comparative analysis that places Physics and Programming on the same level. The systems that underly natural sciences are givens . The entire kettle of soup of software complexity boils on the fact that software engineering must first create the 'terra firma' of computing. That is the root cause of the complexity in software: it lacks a physics.
Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
71–80 of 81 posts
Re: Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
#72I haven't watched the video yet, so please forgive the possibly premature comment... But this is something that I've found myself thinking about a lot lately. Are the things that we're currently building or maintaining truly that complicated or are we over-engineering things? I've been humbled on more than one occasion where I initially thought an enterprise-y solution was over-engineered, until all the details of th…
Re: Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
>In order to learn French and its vocabulary, English speaker will found a lot of similarity but from the more formal side of their vocabulary. That would lead English speaker to think French is more precise, I don't think the French have something to do with this. Worse, the French apparently teach young students to write in a way that they consider profound, and the Anglosphere considers imprecise drivel.
Do elaborate?
Re: Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mathematica gets live code, data visualization, and ML, all with a lispy+tacit+functional syntax. I find it much more integrated and easy to use compared to Jupyter notebook, although it's near useless for anything imperative -- I find myself using Jupyter a lot these days to develop one-off scripts interactively. (please, no one mention stephen)
> (please, no one mention stephen) Why? Does he come to every place that mentions his name, like that AI guy?
Re: Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> their general more precise use of language This isn't really true, it's just a snobby idea the French have somehow successfully convinced us of. (It goes along with the idea that they have the most "refined" culture or something).
I beg to differ, as a young adult I became enamored with English, for its simplicity in structure and vocabulary, I was annoyed by French redundancy and diversity and almost started to think in English. Few years later, English feels restrictive and too simple. French aggregated many influences from centuries at a crossroad, and it seems it kept a lot in order to be able to add subtle layers of information by using p…
This describes English perhaps more so.
> and it seems it kept a lot in order to be able to add subtle layers of information by using particular sets of words fitting together well to propel metaphores and other succint yet precise description of the world.
It's your native language, so of course you might think that (especially when added with this snobby French cultural ideal).
Re: Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you used OMeta? That came out ouf VPRI I believe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMeta . It is a really nice approach to constructing parsers and interpreters. Then there is "Open, extensible object models": https://www.recurse.com/blog/65-paper-of-the-week-open-exten... . Again by the same folks. Those are the one that come to mind when I think of simple and very powerful tools. There are many others. So I think…
I've read the OMeta paper, the object models paper, and most of the VPRI papers. I'm generally sympathetic to their point of view -- I hate bloated software. But what has been built with these tools? If OMeta was really better, wouldn't we be using it to parse languages by now? They already have a successor Ohm, which is interesting, but I also think it falls short. I'm searching desperately for a meta-language to de…
Re: Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
I beg to differ, as a young adult I became enamored with English, for its simplicity in structure and vocabulary, I was annoyed by French redundancy and diversity and almost started to think in English. Few years later, English feels restrictive and too simple. French aggregated many influences from centuries at a crossroad, and it seems it kept a lot in order to be able to add subtle layers of information by using p…
> French aggregated many influences from centuries at a crossroad This describes English perhaps more so. > and it seems it kept a lot in order to be able to add subtle layers of information by using particular sets of words fitting together well to propel metaphores and other succint yet precise description of the world. It's your native language, so of course you might think that (especially when added with this sn…
Also how can England be more influenced by countries as an Island ? the naval conquests, the commonwealth ? I don't know history much, but it seemed to me they kept a very cohesive identity except for the not so French/English feedback loop.
Re: Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've read the OMeta paper, the object models paper, and most of the VPRI papers. I'm generally sympathetic to their point of view -- I hate bloated software. But what has been built with these tools? If OMeta was really better, wouldn't we be using it to parse languages by now? They already have a successor Ohm, which is interesting, but I also think it falls short. I'm searching desperately for a meta-language to de…
I think this is the case with all software. None of it is 100% or even 95%. This is why I've given up on learning anything language specific. If you understand the concepts then you'll be able to re-create the pieces you need in your language of choice because most of the time the other 5% or 10% is context dependent.
http://www.oilshell.org/blog/2016/12/27.html
I tend to agree and most of my shell is either written from scratch, or copying and adapting small piees of code that are known to work. I take ownership of them rather than using them as libraries.
That is even the case for the Python interpreter, which is the current subject of the blog.
I'm not quite sure, but I think OMeta falls even shorter than the typical piece of software. I'm not saying it's not worthwhile -- it seems like a good piece of research software and probably appropriate for their goals. But to say it generalizes is a different claim.
Re: Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I dispute that Erlang has a huge barrier to entry. Although there is a larger barrier than for, say, Python or Ruby, I feel that Erlang gets an undeservedly bad rap, especially given the ROI. I am no genius, but I was able circa 2008 to develop a significant production system in Erlang, while learning Erlang on the job over a period of 3-4 months. I had never programmed in a functional language before (C++ was my for…
> circa 2008 to develop a significant production system in Erlang Is that whatsapp by any chance? ;)
Re: Is it really “Complex”? Or did we make it “Complicated”? (2014) [video]
#80I haven't watched the video yet, so please forgive the possibly premature comment... But this is something that I've found myself thinking about a lot lately. Are the things that we're currently building or maintaining truly that complicated or are we over-engineering things? I've been humbled on more than one occasion where I initially thought an enterprise-y solution was over-engineered, until all the details of th…
Fundamentally, we don't really do discoverability well because volunteers are fickle as hell, and commercial interests are profit-focused.