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A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

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Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#71

Post by NoGravitas »

emmelaich wrote: post #36
yummybits wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capitalism may be a problem Capitalism is 1000% is the problem. No ifs, ends or buts. Specially, unrestricted, unlimited, mindless consumption of resources (which is at the core of capitalism) is the problem. > brief bit of reading will tell you that Communism is a far far worse problem when it comes to pollution Please do tell me what "reading" you're referring to. And no, China is not communist. China is capitali…

Oh, here's some "reading" (what's with the quotes?) Recent Venezualan Oil Tankers banned from many harbours. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-oil-tankers-insi... Less Recent (Soviet Era) https://fee.org/articles/why-socialism-causes-pollution/ You might not like fee.org so here's a Wikipedia quote. "Kraków, Poland was covered by smog 135 days per year, while Wrocław was covered by a fog of chrome gas" (fro…

> There is a common cause of neglect of the environment in both so-called Communist and Capitalist countries.

Rapid industrialization? That would explain worse pollution in Soviet-bloc countries: they industrialized faster than capitalist western Europe/USA because they were playing catch-up.

Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#72

Post by ihsw2 »

The article mentions on plastic somehow finding its way to the Arctic ocean and then later briefly mentions an important term -- the thermohaline circulation.

It should be noted that this little-known oceanic phenomenon has a massive impact on the ecology of the Earth and personally I think studying it is one of the best starting points in determining how to measure our impact on the Earth's ecology (eg: sources and destinations of pollution).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation#Effec...

Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#73

Post by driverdan »

pjc50 wrote: post #59
blitmap wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do understand the importance of keeping a realistic view of the problem - I'm just wondering why with all the open ocean area we don't create massive solar-powered debris collectors. I guess using wave motion is cooler, but you'd think there'd be more innovation to do something that can just go out and "collect".

"Mr Trash Wheel" http://baltimorewaterfront.com/healthy-harbor/water-wheel/

Mr Trash Wheel is picking up large pieces of plastic. It would not work out at sea where the pieces are very small.

Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#74

Post by seszett »

ashark wrote: post #9
hoodoof wrote: post #2

I visited the beautiful pacific recently and even on very remote tropical islands there were plastic bottles in the water and on the beaches everywhere. Very sad - hopefully one day the world will come to see plastic as the scourge that it is.

I read a whole lot of posts by a Russian world traveling photo-blogger a few years back, and one of a few consistent themes was that most remote Pacific islands kinda look like garbage dumps, if anyone lives on them. Others included: former French colonies are usually way worse off than former British colonies, and that the US (and Australia a bit, though less) has like 100x as many posted instructions and regulation…

It doesn't take anyone living on islands for them to be littered with trash.

I stayed on Kerguelen island for about a year (in the Indian Ocean, not the Pacific) and the North coast is just completely full of plastic trash brought there by the sea. Plastic bottles, tanks, buoys, ropes. The West coast is a bit too remote to survey, but it's probably even worse.

So, people living on islands create trash obviously, but the uninhabited ones might not be better.

Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#75

Post by pasta »

blitmap wrote: post #57
readams wrote: post #8

I think when people imagine these "garbage patches" they picture a floating garbage dump you could set a lawn chair on. The reality is that they are regions of slightly increased concentration of plastic. Here, the worst areas are between 100-500 grams of plastic per square kilometer. That is 5 empty water bottles in a square kilometer. This doesn't mean that having this debris is a good thing but it's important to g…

I do understand the importance of keeping a realistic view of the problem - I'm just wondering why with all the open ocean area we don't create massive solar-powered debris collectors. I guess using wave motion is cooler, but you'd think there'd be more innovation to do something that can just go out and "collect".

Check out The Ocean Cleanup: https://www.theoceancleanup.com/

They are doing exactly that.

Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#76

Post by thinkMOAR »

phireal wrote: post #65
thinkMOAR wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree, odd attitude towards odd claimed discovery. There is a difference between ancient things, which have gaps between civilisations vs garbage we threw out the last 30-40 years and chose to ignore?

The 'new' aspect of this discovery is that we didn't know it was there before. I think that's a perfectly valid thing to call new. I don't think anyone's claiming the plastic is new.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/05/plastic-...

And that's why i think its not a discovery, we knew it was there before.

Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#77

Post by killjoywashere »

lstyls wrote: post #53
killjoywashere wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're fish poo or bird poo, I wouldn't worry too much. The animal digestive tract is an active transport system operating at the molecular level and reasonably selective about hydrocarbons.

The problem is that essentially any modern polymer product isn't pure hydrocarbons. Consumer plastics rely heavily on plasticizers, which change the physical characteristics of the material. The effect of plasticizers on health isn't really widely understood. I agree with the OP's point that the headline is alarmist. Though I find the idea of even few dozen coke bottles per km^2 at the ends of the earth pretty depres…

Between the low concentration, UV exposure, oxidation, acidity, and salinity, I suspect most the stuff is long gone. You almost certainly get more exposure eating off plastic plates, using plastic silverware, drinking from red party cups, etc.

Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#78

Post by sbhere »

Go to preciousplastic.com ... donate or fund them or refer a local organization of interest to help recycle.

Seriously. That (website) combined with personal responsiblilty (reusing water bottles as shared in other comments) would make a huge difference. Personal responsibility: When was the last time you (the reader) tossed a cigarette butt on the ground? ... threw something in the trash instead of taking it to a recycling bin? ...

This hits the front page the same day HN has an article about Russia being better at STEM outreach to young girls than the USA. If you're in the USA and want to promote STEM, go to your local school and fund construction of one of the Precious Plastic machines. It's probably the same cost as a student would have to fund raise for drama club or football team. Get Precious Plastic into schools, integrated with the shop/tech ed classes, involved with Home Ec (or whatever it's called now), and encourage [girls and boys] to be more interested, more involved, more creative.

We can solve more of these problems simultaneously with good solutions. Let's do it people!

Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#79

Post by pbreit »

lstyls wrote: post #54
pbreit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. 5 bottles in a square kilometer is practically none.

Maybe we can both agree that the human brain is pretty terrible at judging proportions such as these. I can see both of your points. I'll trust the people who dedicate their lives' work on this one over my intuition, however.

I wouldn't. The "experts" are frequently overly alarming and wrong.

Re: A big patch of plastic garbage has been discovered in the Arctic

#80

Post by fapjacks »

diggernet wrote: post #52
flukus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think when it's describe as an island it's crossed the line into intentional dishonesty.

Yes. And I've seen articles about the Pacific patch illustrated with a photo of a garbage dump with a lot of water in it, giving the first impression of a mound of trash floating in the water. Do these people really not care about their credibility?

Uhm... No. They care about the other c-word.
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