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Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

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Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#71

A lot of confusing points to this story. I'm not defending AirBnB, but this story does baffle on a number of levels. > (they came with a professional sound system) How do you not see this coming, from a host perspective? Big red flag. How this get anywhere near as far as it did? "Well I figured the professional sound system was going to be fine in my apartment complex." > Neighbors called the police five times and so…

>but why can't Dinulescu go after the idiots who did this to his apartment directly?

Do you think it's easier to chase down a few random citizens, or a multi-billion dollar company that accepts liability for damages?

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#72
post #29

Bribes are generally illegal. This should be "compensates," not "bribes." "Bribes" is just hyperbole. This is standard practice for a lot of businesses in a similar space.

We put quotes around that word in the title. I'll add an explanation here in a bit.

Edit: ok, here's an explanation.

We put quotes around "bribes" because that's the tiniest intervention I can think of that still addresses your concern. Why so tiny? That takes a while to explain, so read on if you want to understand how we approach this.

The title breaks the HN guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) by being both baity and misleading. It also contradicts the article text (assuming I read it correctly), since it declares a thing to have happened which the text itself reports as not having happened, if you read it to the end. Such a bait-and-switch is a marker of a bad article.

Normally the moderation on this would be a no-brainer. We'd replace the title with one that is accurate and neutral, and we'd apply a standard downweight that we put on outrage stories which don't contain anything of intellectual interest, especially when the topic has appeared many times before. If we didn't do these things, HN's front page would consist of nothing but dime-a-dozen outrage and the elves would leave middle earth.

However, when the story is negative about YC or a YC-funded company, the regular rules don't apply; we still moderate, but we do it less. That is the first thing pg taught me about how to moderate HN, and the first thing I've taught every other moderator. I've written about this many times: e.g. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=... and https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&date....

Frankly, it bites to see an article get away with this kind of thing on HN when we spend every day trying to keep the front page good. But that's the price we pay for being able to answer users' concerns about conflicts of interest in moderating HN. It doesn't prevent a few people from saying awful things about us—this is the internet after all—but it does let us answer in good conscience. Doing our best and answering questions seems to be enough to keep most HN users happy, which is the thing we care most about.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#73
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you're alluding to and it's pretty hard to answer vague insinuations—in fact it's impossible.

> I'm not sure what you're alluding to I have no opinion on the matter, but clearly the OP is alluding to the fact that HN will bury negative stories about their investments.

That first tweet is about Uber. Uber is not a YC investment. It's also one of the most heavily discussed topics on HN, so it's hard to understand what's being claimed there.

The idea that HN "buries stories about [YC] investments" is one some people assume must be true—as you did, for example, in your use of the word 'fact' above. But the truth is the opposite. When stories are negative about YC or YC-funded companies, we moderate them less, not more, than we otherwise would. I've posted about this plenty of times, e.g. recently at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13861389.

For example, consider the current post. This is not a good HN story, because it doesn't describe anything of intellectual interest. It also has a baity and misleading title, which breaks the rules at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. But we haven't penalized it, and we haven't replaced the title other than to put quotation marks around "bribes", in response to a user's objection. Intervening less in such cases, even at the expense of HN's quality, is the price we pay for being able to answer comments like yours and the GP's in good faith.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#74
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if one day the Airbnb exec privately pockets money for getting someone into an apartment? You've already used "bribe;" where do you go from there? The problem with hyperbole is you will pay the inflation tax on your word choice. Crying wolf, basically.

I just bribed my kid to do his homework. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bribe I am using the word correctly. Perhaps you should consider if you're interpretation of the word is not biased?

If you feel(touch) you've been clear(see-through) and fair(bright, sunny) with this line of rhetoric, I'm happy to drop the advice.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#75
"They barricaded themselves inside with 14 police officers being unable to get them out until morning.”

What? In America (god bless thee) police would have broken down doors and pepper sprayed those monsters, hopefully a few billy clubs to the head as well and arrested them all.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#76
post #41

What's going on here? The first half of the story sounds like routine corporate incompetency. Representatives don't read your stuff, can't be bothered to follow their own procedures, and screw you over. Unacceptable but, alas, fairly common when dealing with big companies. The NDA is where it goes off the rails. He's entitled to that money, so why would they try to put conditions on it? I'm sure they're not thrilled…

Gag clauses are routine for this kind of thing. I'm a bit surprised you haven't heard of them already.

Maybe it's a more UK thing?

Here's one example around employment law, but similar clauses exist for pre-trial payouts of no fault "damages". http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9967899/Gagging-ord...

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#77
post #41

What's going on here? The first half of the story sounds like routine corporate incompetency. Representatives don't read your stuff, can't be bothered to follow their own procedures, and screw you over. Unacceptable but, alas, fairly common when dealing with big companies. The NDA is where it goes off the rails. He's entitled to that money, so why would they try to put conditions on it? I'm sure they're not thrilled…

It's not unusual for settlements to have conditions attached, which makes this NDA thing somewhat less outlandish than it seems at first. For instance, if you settle with an insurance company after a car accident, you may have to sign something which says "that is it", waiving your right to sue anyone for anything more. If the person is properly compensated 100%, but keeps talking, it can be argued that their materia…

> you may have to sign something which says "that is it", waiving your right to sue anyone for anything more

Isn't that quite different from an NDA though? With insurance, everything is documented and available for access in case you need to reference it at some later point in time. With an NDA, the settlement is effectively hidden from view and is much harder for you to legally discuss if you need to reference it at some later point. For example, if the owner decides to sell the apartment and the prospective buyer wants to know the history of any damages.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#78

there are endless stories like this with AirBNB. They are right in that they have millions of successful bookings and these one-off scenarios are the exception to the rule, but they are being very unprofessional in the way they handle these matters. I would lawyered up as soon as they started dickin me around.

Apparently involving the media is cheaper and faster. Right move in this scenario.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#79
post #41

What's going on here? The first half of the story sounds like routine corporate incompetency. Representatives don't read your stuff, can't be bothered to follow their own procedures, and screw you over. Unacceptable but, alas, fairly common when dealing with big companies. The NDA is where it goes off the rails. He's entitled to that money, so why would they try to put conditions on it? I'm sure they're not thrilled…

It's not unusual for settlements to have conditions attached, which makes this NDA thing somewhat less outlandish than it seems at first. For instance, if you settle with an insurance company after a car accident, you may have to sign something which says "that is it", waiving your right to sue anyone for anything more. If the person is properly compensated 100%, but keeps talking, it can be argued that their materia…

There is no settlement involved, because there is no legal claim, technically. None of the logic around legal settlements comes into play at all, so the devil's advocacy here is misguided. The NDA is outlandish and is clearly designed to shut him up and cover up the mishandling of the case.

This might be different under UK law, but if he had sued you might have a point. Then I'd expect gag, non-disparagement, forefeiture of claims and so on. I've signed those personally and understand that. But if I haven't sued you and you gag me for what I deem fair? Well, sounds like I should potentially sue because someone is not operating in good faith, and it ain't me. That move alone would make me want to discover your internal communications about handling me and in this case, I bet they're awesome.

Keep in mind they're writing him off from saying "they fixed this! They're the good guys!" which sure, seems unlikely, but if a company takes care of something without a lawsuit a gag seems counterintuitive and in bad faith.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#80
www.airbnbhell.com

Lots of crazy stories!

Their business model seems to rely on people willing to roll the dice on their safety and security to save (or earn) a few bucks! It will undoubtedly survive this little blip of negative publicity, but people really need to be wary of this organization's complete lack of customer service (when things go bad).

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