Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 285 posts

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#71

Post by DougWebb »

douche wrote: post #44
mabbo wrote: post #42

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea. But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned. Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing…

Would that it would be possible for the reverse to happen. Never will left-wing politicians lower tax rates.

If you look at federal budgets over the past 40 years [1] (select Presidents Trump through Carter) the only years with a budget surplus were budgets from Bill Clinton. Each year of his term the deficits got smaller, until they became surpluses in the last three years. George W had a (smaller) surplus his first year, but then went back into deficit spending to fund the wars in the Middle East. I'm not sure how the timing works, but that first year surplus might have been due to Clinton too.

As I recall, Clinton cooperated with a fiscally-conservative Republican Congress to get the budget in line. Rapid growth in the IT industry helped raise revenues as well. Unfortunately the Republicans turned against him at the end, and completely lost their fiscally-conservative policy standpoint. Deficit spending has just been getting worse and worse since then, regardless of who's been in power.

http://federal-budget.insidegov.com/ [1]

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#72

Post by MangentBrioche »

ergothus wrote: post #62
mabbo wrote: post #42

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea. But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned. Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing…

> Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing politicians to agree to some left-wing ideals: prove that it will save money and let them lower taxes. I've certainly heard this argument from the (few) libertarian sources that are considering basic income. They are opposed to "entitlement" programs, but see a (theoretically) cheaper entitlement program as better than an expensive one. (Perhaps they also think t…

UBI is being pushed by a subset of the wealthy primarily because it will be a juicy source of rent, in both the economic and colloquial senses.

Every cent of UBI will be absorbed by housing costs absent the sort of regulation that would itself make UBI politically untenable (i.e. because it would not benefit the wealthy.)

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#73

Post by ProAm »

organsnyder wrote: post #36
ProAm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So its like the US unemployment rate?

When was the US unemployment rate definition changed? I know there are debates around whether the rate we normally talk about is the most important indicator, but the definition has remained the same for decades, AFAIK.

Correct I see how I didn't explain well the point I was trying to make. Its always been the same, but it's a tad shady on what they actually count as unemployed. For instance they do not count discouraged workers and involuntary part-timers, or people who stopped looking because they simply cannot find work.

The unemployment percent in the US is largely a political talking point/fodder wherein the government doesn't do much to change it.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#74

Post by danielweber »

ergothus wrote: post #62
mabbo wrote: post #42

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea. But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned. Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing…

> Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing politicians to agree to some left-wing ideals: prove that it will save money and let them lower taxes. I've certainly heard this argument from the (few) libertarian sources that are considering basic income. They are opposed to "entitlement" programs, but see a (theoretically) cheaper entitlement program as better than an expensive one. (Perhaps they also think t…

The politicians likely remember the scandal from the 1980s of Regular Joes being torn apart by aggressive IRS agents. Saying "hiring more IRS agents brings in more money than they cost" is incredibly gauche to anyone who remembers it.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#75

Post by [deleted] »

nsnick wrote: post #35
meritt wrote: post #26

Utah didn't solve homelessness. The primary "reduction" was changing the definition of chronic homelessness and now less people are being counted. http://www.aei.org/publication/on-utahs-91-percent-decrease-...

I think you need to read your own article. Its conclusion states, "Utah experienced a less dramatic, but still impressive 71 percent decrease in chronic homelessness since 2005." Are the numbers slightly inflated? Sure. Is it better than anything the west coast is doing? Absolutely.

[deleted]

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#76

Post by douche »

st3v3r wrote: post #56
douche wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was very disappointed that ordinances to restrict panhandling in medians were overturned in Portland, ME in recent years. There's no need of that. If you are willing to work, there is always work to be done for a decent wage, (although possibly less than the absurd level minimum wage has climbed to).

Anyone who claims the minimum wage level is absurd has clearly never tried to live on it.

Last i checked they had increased the minimum wage beyond what trained heavy equipment operators were making. That is absurd, no matter how you slice it.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#77

Post by NewCathargo »

Give every homeless person a $20 thing of nicotine each month.

Stop the ponzi scheme of housing costs.

Teach them skills general enough to plug into a variety of jobs and specific enough to survive alongside automation.

Giving a chronically homeless person a "home" doesn't make up for the completely shattered social network they have. And the shattered sense of civil conduct in a society which literally tossed them to the trash.

My melancholy tells me the above will never happen. Homelessness is a shadow industry where nobody gets punished for letting relapses happen. Therefore, nobody "owns" performance in getting the homeless into a housed state. In the industry, talking points are more valuable than actual "performance".

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#78

Post by crystalmeph »

jtedward wrote: post #57
douche wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that it would be possible for the reverse to happen. Never will left-wing politicians lower tax rates.

Obama lowered taxes, in fact no Democratic president has raised taxes during my lifetime (I'm 25). It's pretty strange people always claim this is a thing when it's just flat false.

Bill Clinton raised taxes early in his first term, 24 years ago in 1993. "He raised taxes on higher income taxpayers"[0]. Did you mean that no Democratic president raised taxes on your family in your lifetime?

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_Bill_Cl...

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#79

Post by douche »

ergothus wrote: post #62
mabbo wrote: post #42

The 'Housing First' model was really pushed hard by Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. It was weird because he is such a staunch right-wing kind of guy, yet here he was putting money towards what seems like a very left-wing socialist idea. But he, like Lloyd Pendleton in this article, apparently figured out that it saves a lot of money, ideology be damned. Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing…

> Maybe that's a good example of how to get right-wing politicians to agree to some left-wing ideals: prove that it will save money and let them lower taxes. I've certainly heard this argument from the (few) libertarian sources that are considering basic income. They are opposed to "entitlement" programs, but see a (theoretically) cheaper entitlement program as better than an expensive one. (Perhaps they also think t…

Any tax code that, should you be capable of lifting it, requires both hands and a top 5 player to develop, is suspect

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness

#80

Post by NewCathargo »

xraystyle wrote: post #21
_m8fo wrote: post #3

I wonder if better/more accessible health care would eliminate homeless as a side effect. It seems much of the homeless in Boston, anyway is mental health/health related. I doubt anyone will say that what Utah did here is bad , but you have to wonder what's preventing a more comprehensive solution (the answer is politics, but ideally you'd get a more specific answer).

It seems to me that largely the issue is there's no mechanism to force people into treatment for drug/alcohol addiction and mental illness. Here in Los Angeles the number of homeless who are severely mentally ill is incredibly high. It's quite common to see homeless people standing on street corners, yelling and screaming at non-existent antagonists, behaving bizarrely, urinating and defecating in broad daylight, and…

Rehab is worthless beyond worthless. I liked Audrey Murphy's strategy, of locking himself in a room for a week, far better.

Rehab doesn't address the part where you come back to normal life. And all the old aches and pains start up and nothing seems worthwhile and there's little work...

Teaching the homeless to be COMPETENT nomads is a better strategy. Otherwise they're at the mercy of public officials and contractors who only see them as a flesh to money machine.

Post reply on HN