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Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

nautil.us

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Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#71

Post by sunilkumarc »

psyc wrote: post #45
CuriouslyC wrote: post #17

Truthfully, I've found that the real difference in intelligence between people isn't so large as many people think it is. People don't generally come along and solve "intractable" problems because they're so much smarter than all the people who've tacked the problem prior to them. Instead, they approach the problem in a way that is fundamentally different. This is why outsiders are so frequently the people who make m…

This comment seems to be begging the question by tacitly comparing people who are already of similar intelligence. Most people don't even "approach problems", ever, in their lives.

I'm glad to have found this comment. Most people today die today without even approaching a problem like Newton, Einstein and many others did who were obsessed with 1 single problem for years and decades.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#72

Post by badosu »

urahara wrote: post #44
Psychthowaway wrote: post #22

As a public figure, it wasn't worth burning my reputation to type this out, but I think that speaks to the state of discourse around mental health today. The article is uses the word "psychopathology" which is a general term for the study of mental disorders. However I want to talk specifically about Psychopathy as a disorder, because I recently came to understand that I am a psychopath. My guess is that there are pr…

Great comment. What do you think can be done to cope with this? Maybe empathy and emotions can be learned?

Something that should be verified is whether the subject isn't capable of empathy and emotions or assume it as a way to cope with the pain implied by their existence.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#73

Post by leggomylibro »

throwaway90840 wrote: post #50
CuriouslyC wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say most progress, I said breakthroughs. Let's look back at some of the biggest breakthroughs in history. Newton was by all accounts a profoundly odd human being who was highly secretive and kept to himself. Faraday came from poverty and made his discoveries with no grounding in the math of the day. Einstein made his big breakthroughs as a patent clerk working on his own. Darwin was also an outsider who work…

I don't know if that is possible these days though. Ideas even from (relatively unknown) insiders are often termed "lacking in scope" and outright rejected. I can only think of one outsider having accomplished anything of value in math in the past 20 years (and even that guy wasn't really an outsider). Academia has turned into a social game that is painful, and where the rewards are terrible (unless you're in CS I su…

I dunno; we have access to all kinds of fascinating and exciting technologies today. You could get going with CRISPR for 5 large, if you do your research and buy secondhand equipment. We have 50F capacitors today in a package that would only fit a few mF in the past. You can order a few square inches of custom-designed PCB for about $1.00 these days, including shipping.

I guess that CRISPR requires extensive research and planning to target genes, pick out restriction enzymes, make gRNA, etc etc, but that's all freely available through public resources like the NCBI. When it comes to taking advantage of a global supply chain and centuries of incredible innovation, we are really standing on the shoulders of giants. And how long will it be before someone takes advantage of that low barrier of entry? History says: "not long."

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#74

Post by sverige »

taurath wrote: post #62
sverige wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I detest "I am very smart" posts. I just came back to delete my bullshit comment, but I have decided to let it ride because of your kind words. I am glad you found it entertaining. Hopefully I won't hate myself in the morning for not deleting it. :^0 P.S. I really don't think I am a genius, just to be clear.

Well then you have a clear chance of being a genius, since according to other threads those who think they're a genius aren't!

This, my friend, is the well-worn path to the rabbit hole.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#75

Post by trentmb »

sverige wrote: post #65
trentmb wrote: post #48

You have a personality disorder. Please see a psychiatrist.

Oh, I have seen several psychiatrists and psychologists and counselors over the years. They're generally pleasant but useless people, though a couple of them provided perspectives and comments that were useful at the time. The biggest help has been that I no longer value social acceptance so highly. It's terrible, I know. Feel free to call me an obnoxious asshole if it helps you. Several have and I've survived.

> The biggest help has been that I no longer value social acceptance so highly.

Sure you do- hence your performance, hence your need to reply to me.

I suspect you expected a reply in the vein of mine.

EDIT: i reply => a reply

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#76

Post by sunilkumarc »

fritzw wrote: post #16
rhizome wrote: post #9

This seems quite all over the place and I'm not sure what the point was. Was it that sometimes mental illness and creativity are coincident? Everything else seemed like a bunch of worldbuilding.

Over all the uniting factor seems to be having an outsiders view of the world. Creativity, or mental illness will both give you a unique view of the world. Otherwise, the writing composition is beyond me

Your last sentence made me upvote your comment :)

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#77

Post by rumcajz »

Psychthowaway wrote: post #22

As a public figure, it wasn't worth burning my reputation to type this out, but I think that speaks to the state of discourse around mental health today. The article is uses the word "psychopathology" which is a general term for the study of mental disorders. However I want to talk specifically about Psychopathy as a disorder, because I recently came to understand that I am a psychopath. My guess is that there are pr…

Glad you wrote this.

I was often wondering whether it is possible to communicate with a psychopath. Communication requires trust, i.e. that the person you are speaking with isn't lying. With non-psychopaths this is achieved by the complex play of empathy, guilt etc. However, given that psychopaths lack these feeling the mechanism just doesn't work. It's an epistemic and, actually, quite terrifying problem: You have this human being and no chance to ever know what they think of feel.

And if there's no chance to communicate, there's no way to truly solve problems.

And now I hear the problem is experienced even from the other side. And note that I believe you because the comment was posted from a throwaway account and thus you have very little to gain from it.

So maybe, in the end, there's a chance to communicate over the chasm, possibly using some techniques from game theory?

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#78

Post by mtdewcmu »

sverige wrote: post #61
mtdewcmu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have a fixation on the idea of genius. You are susceptible to momentarily convincing yourself​ that you're a genius, which is followed by feelings of inadequacy. Why don't you try to put this genius idea out of your head? Convince yourself that you are probably not a genius, but that's ok because you do your best. You may have to grieve for a bit as the loss of your genius fantasy sinks in. If you feel a…

Oh, how many times have I done this. I think it is a side-effect of growing up in a time when the idea of genius was especially promoted, and also of being raised by parents who were teachers and who thought geniuses were important. Thankfully, I have a good counterbalance of extensive readings in philosophy and theology. Now, for a real sense of loss, two days ago the grandmother of my best childhood friend died. Sh…

You write very well, so there's that. Probably not genius level, unfortunately.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#79

Post by hyperpallium »

beachy wrote: post #39
dkarapetyan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean extra IQ points.

Excellent pedantry.

Given the value of all possible viewpoints, that the expected value of "a different viewpoint" is 80 IQ points (i.e. moronic) is probably wildly optimistic. Most viewpoints aren't helpful.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#80

Post by pryelluw »

sverige wrote: post #69
pryelluw wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to feel the same way. What changed? My brother died. Dropped dead. I realized that life is not only short but fragile. I started to work on improving my life one step at a time. Wanting things to happen overnight but knowing that takes time. Sometimes losing faith but never losing focus on the end goal. I want to to not waste my life. Forget being smart or doing something big. I don't want to regret wasting it…

Yes, I agree. I do not spend all my Saturday evenings in this state. In fact, it's quite rare, and 99% of the time, I am very content and reasonably focused on accomplishing good things for my family, friends, and society at large. P.S. I am very sorry to hear that you lost your brother. That must be painful.

Thank you. I wish you the best of luck. I mean it.
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