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Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

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Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#71
post #34

This is hilarious. Only in the bizarre world we live in could a half billion sale be spun out into a failure to get a billion. Would a billion have satisfied the author or would it have then needed to be two?

>Only in the bizarre world we live in could a half billion sale be spun out into a failure to get a billion. I can't speak for the author but selling Trello "for only $425m" is a failed outcome if the growth expectations was for it to become a massive $1 billion business. How do we know that? Because Trello took $10 million in VC money in 2014.[1] So we can just work backward from the $1 billion goal using basic math…

This is regrettably out to lunch, my friend. A 10x return (and a nine-figure absolute return) in two years is "failure" all around?

Only in the waning days of a market top would such an assertion (that such a return is a "failure" to anyone involved) even have a frisson of plausibility.

Also, most of your numbers & ratios are order-of-magnitude right, but as they say, "horseshoes and hand grenades." A $442 M fund size is big enough that returning even a 3x-4x overall, with any consistency, would be downright virtuosic. So, no, they don't need to return $3B or 6-7x the entire fund to be successful (nor do they or their LPs have any realistic expectation of doing so).

The long game, as always, is to try to have just ONE Google in your portfolio (the 400x+). But the short and mid games dominate, and they are about staying alive long enough to have enough at-bats to hit that grand slam. And the absolute, bar-none best way to stay alive that long, is to consistently make money for your investors.

Finally, the ex ante assumptions and hopes and dreams are not really the way to judge the decision to sell Trello. That decision must be judged on facts in hand at the time. And frankly, at that time, Trello was a leading Kanban app, with no obvious or de-risked path toward a 10x or 100x from where they were.

TL;DR: Nobody actually in that game is pooh-poohing a 9-figure exit for 10x in 2 years with a straight face.

Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#72
post #69

As far as I recall (and I've been a Trello user nearly since it was released), it wasn't necessarily Fog Creek's intention to build a huge monetized business out of Trello. In fact, at some point, users started to get anxious that Trello was free and actually WANTED to throw money at the company. I suppose part of that was the perception that if you're paying for it, it will be more likely to survive and won't go awa…

I don't buy that narrative since Trello received $ 10M in funding [1] and you must convince investors to put that sum of money. [1] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/trello#/entity

True, but they did say that they did that to accelerate, to spin it off and let it grow on its own faster. It was profitable at the time.

https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/24/trello-series-a/

Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#73

"Let me tell you how you to build a $1B business. I've never done it, but take my word that I know how to do it better than someone who sold a half a billion dollar business." Like really, if your advice is useful, why hasn't the author built a $1B business? It seems like they missed the point that Trello became giant for what is essentially networked sticky-notes, were they even trying to become a $1B Business? Next…

Yeah, "failed" in the article title is a really douchey move.

Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#74
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kanban boards have existed since the 50s. The "magic" of trello was the instant updates. It was a perfect example of software eating the world.

The trello UI is also great. If you don't need the back-end features of something like Jira, trello's limited functionality greatly reduced the friction to tracking your activities.

That they were bought by Atlassian fills me with dread because of precedents set by their other products. I use Trello (and pay for it) exactly because I don't want anything like Jira.

Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#75
I think one of the most obvious and glaring reasons is also one of the simplest - my company uses Trello a fair bit, we have a lot of teams on it, tracking a lot of stuff. And we've never once paid a dime for it. Never even been asked to pay for it. Brought us plenty of value, would have paid, but we never hit a threshold where that was a thing. I don't even know where that threshold is or if there is one.

Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#76
post #26

Besides all the comments about his article being from a bizarro-world, it should be noted that once Trello infrastructure was in place it was impossible to move it. Turning a todo-list app into "the single-source of truth for a company" would require monstruous schema changes and changes in all the live updates thing etc., and everything would be slower, heavier etc., all that and you couldn't have known if that woul…

did you work on trello, or is this speculation?

Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#77
post #63

As far as I recall (and I've been a Trello user nearly since it was released), it wasn't necessarily Fog Creek's intention to build a huge monetized business out of Trello. In fact, at some point, users started to get anxious that Trello was free and actually WANTED to throw money at the company. I suppose part of that was the perception that if you're paying for it, it will be more likely to survive and won't go awa…

That's ridiculous, every businesses wants to grow and make more money. In their ideal world I'm sure Trello's management would have preferred to buy Atlassian than the other way around. The article does a reasonable job with 20/20 hindsight at musing on how they might have achieved that.

> That's ridiculous, every businesses wants to grow and make more money.

But not every person wants their business to grow.

"Feed me venture capital, Seymour..."

Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#78
post #50
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So some VCs didn't get the crazy high returns they thought they would. So what? Calling Trello a failed outcome is still crazy. There are far, far more metrics, and I'd say far more important metrics to decide whether a company is a success than the amount of VC returns.

>Calling Trello a failed outcome is still crazy. Please read my previous comment charitably as I deliberately wrote about Trello using the "investment perspective" for discussion purposes only. It wasn't rendering absolutist judgement that Trello was a failed company. >So some VCs didn't get the crazy high returns That's only looking at one side. The other side is J Spolsky who accepted the $10m. To do that, he had t…

I cannot agree with that. Taking $10m does not mean you plan on growing into a $1B business. I also disagree with the idea that we have to focus on the "investment perspective". The VCs made money. I can't care less that they didn't make as much as they wanted to.

Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#79
post #70
post #61

Not a billion dollar business yet != failed to build a billion dollar business. How do you keep scaling the revenue? Get bigger customers. Where do you get those big deep-pockets customers? The enterprise. How do you sell to big enterprise? With a big enterprise salesforce. Ok. With that, you can either build your own enterprise sales machine (which takes years), or you can sell out to someone who already has one. Li…

There are plenty of companies who have scaled their revenue beyond this point without an enterprise salesforce - Trello's acquirer is one of them Its not a hard rule that to reach beyond $x you need to become an enterprise

Atlassian didn't become a billion dollar company without an enterprise sales force. They just built one. Being acquired is definitely a shorter path.

Re: Why Trello Failed to Build a $1B Business

#80
post #71
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Only in the bizarre world we live in could a half billion sale be spun out into a failure to get a billion. I can't speak for the author but selling Trello "for only $425m" is a failed outcome if the growth expectations was for it to become a massive $1 billion business. How do we know that? Because Trello took $10 million in VC money in 2014.[1] So we can just work backward from the $1 billion goal using basic math…

This is regrettably out to lunch, my friend. A 10x return (and a nine-figure absolute return) in two years is "failure" all around? Only in the waning days of a market top would such an assertion (that such a return is a "failure" to anyone involved) even have a frisson of plausibility. Also, most of your numbers & ratios are order-of-magnitude right, but as they say, "horseshoes and hand grenades." A $442 M fund siz…

>is "failure" all around?

It's definitely not failure all around.

>A $442 M fund size is big enough that returning even a 3x-4x overall, with any consistency, would be downright virtuosic.

A 3x return is 11.6%/year which isn't much more than Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway (9.6% last time I checked) -- given the increased risk of VC funds. BH stock also doesn't have overhead of 2/20 fees. Every institutional investor is different but many would look at safer investments if they are targeting ~11%.

If Sequoia, USV, etc are consistently returning 20+%, that's what the competitive levels among top VCs look like. Maybe it's unreasonable for LP's to expect returns like that from a VC fund but they do.

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