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Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

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Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#71

Post by namelezz »

kafkaesq wrote: post #47

So you're at least occasionally getting actual feedback from some of these discussions. That's quite something, actually. BTW, as to some of that "feedback": Honestly, I think the way you communicated your thought process and results was confusing for some people in the room. "Okay, pal - let's put your people up in a room full of strangers (some of whom show through their body language and/or constant phone-checking…

> Honestly, I think the way you communicated your thought process and results was confusing for some people in the room.

Wow, get similar rejection lately: this is a fast paced company and the way you explained your thought process was confusing and might slow us down, so good luck with your job search.

Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#72

Post by anotheryou »

emplynx wrote: post #62
anotheryou wrote: post #56

While I find it reasonable, I would still not ask about vecation policies in the interview, but rather when they decided they want me and we go through the details. Why would you ask before? (honest question)

I actually had an offer in hand, and it was rescinded after I asked about PTO.

Than it's good you weeded that one out :)

Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#73

Post by dsr_ »

strictnein wrote: post #37

> "Quite honestly given your questions [about vacation policy] and the fact that you are considering other options, [we] may not be the best choice for you." I had a very similar experience. Job offer was basically on the table and then they balked because I mentioned that I had another offer (at a larger company, which they seemed shocked/annoyed with) and I had a question about parking at their new offices. The cur…

It is always the case that you are better off learning that the company is dysfunctional before your acceptance than after.

It still hurts, of course.

Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#74

Post by lukejduncan »

SatvikBeri wrote: post #35

I manage a data science team and revamped the hiring process pretty substantially about a year ago, to good results. Nothing in here is particularly original, but here's what we do: 1. Break down "data science" into several different roles–in our case, Analyst (business-oriented), Scientist (stats-heavy), Engineer (software-heavy). Turns out that what we mostly want are Engineers-Analysts, so our process screens heav…

This is a great breakdown. Data Science can mean a lot of different things and I think the three roles you defined are spot on. At LinkedIn, what used to be called Data Science is now exclusively analyst roles. We have a separate org (hundreds of people) called Relevance which is part of the engineering org and is composed of scientists and engineers. Everyone in that org falls somewhere on the scientist to engineer spectrum with ML / Stats backgrounds and a bias towards ML engineers. Most of the people who interview would consider the relevance roles "Data Science" but the term within the company is still tightly coupled with pure analyst functions.

Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#75

Post by sheeshkebab »

SatvikBeri wrote: post #35

I manage a data science team and revamped the hiring process pretty substantially about a year ago, to good results. Nothing in here is particularly original, but here's what we do: 1. Break down "data science" into several different roles–in our case, Analyst (business-oriented), Scientist (stats-heavy), Engineer (software-heavy). Turns out that what we mostly want are Engineers-Analysts, so our process screens heav…

I wish all interviewing was like that above - typically it's - create some incoherent job description, run through a bunch of semi-random candidates, pick a random guy that fits the budget, rinse/repeat...

Candidates know that, typical in person interview has a 1/10 chance (or worse) of getting an offer from an inperson interview, and so most candidates, including good ones, would care less to spend much time on interviewing with any one employer, or do much to increase their unknown chances.

As a rusult employers don't get right candidates and then wine about lack of talent and pay for crappy tools that just sort resumes half assed way... good grief.

Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#76

Post by maxxxxx »

anotheryou wrote: post #70
maxxxxx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not?

Not to give them any reason to doubt my working moral.

If asking about vacation policies makes them doubt your working morale I would recommend to run quickly. Is asking for money offensive to them too?

Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#77

Post by dandermotj »

halflings wrote: post #12
yummyfajitas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've probably interviewed about 70-100 such people in the past year and a half. Exactly 1 such person was qualified (I hired him). The issue in my view is the following: people who know both statistics and computer science are extremely rare. People who actually understand statistics are rare. I can probably weed out 1/3 to 1/2 of candidates simply by asking what a p-value is, or what precision/recall are (this inclu…

Ignoring what a p-value is does not mean that you don't know statistics. p-tests are not some inherent statistical property, they're just a useful model for significance. People coming from a CS background most likely didn't have to deal with p-values, but they can still be good at linear algebra or bayesian statistics. (not sure I can defend somebody that does not know what precision/recall are)

You're certainly not going to study Bayesian statistics without knowing (or at least having studied) what a p-value is.

Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#78

Post by komali2 »

strictnein wrote: post #37

> "Quite honestly given your questions [about vacation policy] and the fact that you are considering other options, [we] may not be the best choice for you." I had a very similar experience. Job offer was basically on the table and then they balked because I mentioned that I had another offer (at a larger company, which they seemed shocked/annoyed with) and I had a question about parking at their new offices. The cur…

Both of your points I find extremely surprising. I've found that mentioning that I have other offers makes me a more competitive pick (this reflects my experience when I was a recruiter as well), and that's very weird that they balked at your question about parking. Honestly you probably dodged a bullet.

Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#79

Post by anotheryou »

maxxxxx wrote: post #76
anotheryou wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to give them any reason to doubt my working moral.

If asking about vacation policies makes them doubt your working morale I would recommend to run quickly. Is asking for money offensive to them too?

It just came to my mind that I'm spoiled by the german vacation standards. It probably makes a lot more sense elsewhere.

Re: Some Reflections on Being Turned Down for a Lot of Data Science Jobs

#80

Post by BickNowstrom »

strictnein wrote: post #37

> "Quite honestly given your questions [about vacation policy] and the fact that you are considering other options, [we] may not be the best choice for you." I had a very similar experience. Job offer was basically on the table and then they balked because I mentioned that I had another offer (at a larger company, which they seemed shocked/annoyed with) and I had a question about parking at their new offices. The cur…

Mentioning that you had another offer can be tricky. Did they ask you if you were seeing other companies? Did you just put it out there? Did you put them on a deadline?

Mentioning that you have another offer is seen as a negotiating tactic. Then they have to compete/bid against the other offer, and you are removing some of their leverage/power. A strong reaction to such a move can be to cut off the interview, so to regain back their power.

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