Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

dn.se

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 82 posts

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#71

Post by ptype »

jahaja wrote: post #69
ptype wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on my phone earlier. DN under Wolodarski has received a lot of criticism, which I suspect you are actually aware of. Please find a few examples below. Aftonbladet: Journalists question the truthfulness of a series of DN's articles: http://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/article23755207.ab Alice Teodorescu of GP has criticised DN and their journalistic methods on numerous occasions, e.g. "DN on collision course with r…

This is blatant cherry-picking an I'm saying that as a person with left-wing ideals (DN is a right-wing newspaper). These are not "journalistic scandals" in any sense of the words you're making them out to be. Furthermore, using the same measurement standards as yourself, some of your sources are questionable at best in this matter. Especially GP which has taken a _sharp_, even populist, right turn since the appointm…

Your claims of cherry-picking are nonsense. I have picked a few examples to support my argument of deteriorating journalistic quality. Aftonbladet and GP are mainstream newspapers. GP is not right wing by international standards. For international readers, it is worth pointing out that DN is definitely not a particularly right wing publication by any international standard. Sanandaji is a frequent commentator in Swedish media with a best selling book out.

To me it seems that you are letting your own self-confessed political views influence your ability to evaluate the quality of the journalism and fall back on ad hominem rather than presenting your counter arguments.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#72

Post by Bombthecat »

themihai wrote: post #18
spiderfarmer wrote: post #11

Things like this makes me worried about the future of the USA. How can a country succeed in the future if they reject reality? I know Fox News is not representative of all US media, but even the president admits that his worldview is based on whatever the news editor cooks up that day.

All this makes me think a war is being cooked up though the stance on Europe doesn't make any sense to me. I thought China is the "issue" now not EU which still pays the price of the latest NATO war(s).

Yup, my guess it will be 6-7 years until war.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#73

Post by jahaja »

ptype wrote: post #71
jahaja wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is blatant cherry-picking an I'm saying that as a person with left-wing ideals (DN is a right-wing newspaper). These are not "journalistic scandals" in any sense of the words you're making them out to be. Furthermore, using the same measurement standards as yourself, some of your sources are questionable at best in this matter. Especially GP which has taken a _sharp_, even populist, right turn since the appointm…

Your claims of cherry-picking are nonsense. I have picked a few examples to support my argument of deteriorating journalistic quality. Aftonbladet and GP are mainstream newspapers. GP is not right wing by international standards. For international readers, it is worth pointing out that DN is definitely not a particularly right wing publication by any international standard. Sanandaji is a frequent commentator in Swed…

Your argument was not made towards "deteriorating journalistic quality". You made two wildly inaccurate statements and are simply not backing them up beyond presenting opinion - rather than scandal exposing - articles where most sources, at the very least, have been more criticized than DN.

And while trying to prove your statements you link to a _tv-debate_, like who's the best tv-debater would matter. That video seem to come from a blatant right-populist account which leaves a bad taste as well, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#74

Post by ptaipale »

willvarfar wrote: post #22
dep_b wrote: post #8

It's a bit weird that a country safer than the US now gets portrayed as a sodom and gomorra of rape and violence. The striking difference between Swedes and immigrants in terms of violent crimes (four times as much, five times for rape) is declared for a large part by the fact that Swedes on average are nice and peaceful people. Fox and Trump blowing everything out of proportion shouldn't stop a healthy debate about…

Immigrants don't commit crimes. Poor people commit crimes. It happens that the poorest people in Sweden right now are immigrants. The rape stats are also way different from how they are portrayed in the media. In Sweden, if you are in an abusive relationship, every instance of abuse is counted individually, and as Assange learned, the law is very strict. As other countries tend to do far worse at reporting and prosec…

>Immigrants don't commit crimes. Poor people commit crimes.

As I already wrote in in some other thread, Swedish national economist Tino Sanandaji (himself of immigrant background) has shown this is not the case: there is actually a problem of immigration-related crime in Sweden, not just poverty-related.

Sweden has had and still has very small income inequality. But in country-wide statistics, crime has still gone down generally while situation has worsened in some urban areas where there are regular shootings and grenade attacks, things that were completely unknown a couple of decades ago. In a word, there's less killings within a group of local men who have an argument about booze and kill each other with a knife, and there are more killings where a gang member is ambushed and shot or killed by a grenade.

Yes, Sweden is still a very safe society, on average. Much safer than the United States is on average. What's remarkable is, however, that the development has reversed: Sweden is no longer becoming safer, but United States is. During the time period 1990-2015 when homicide rate per 100 000 pop in Sweden has gone from 1.3 to 1.1, the United States has gone from 9.4 to 4.5. My native Finland, traditionally the most violent of Nordic countries, has gone from 3.1 to 1.3, and Norway from 1.1 to 0.4. Denmark is at 0.8. Sweden will soon be the most violent of the Nordic countries.

So Sweden does have a problem, it's not improving like other Western countries.

The U.S. situation is, of course, a thing where also Donald Trump's narrative is wrong: the U.S. has become much safer over the past 15 years, not less safe. There is still some reason for concern in the U.S. though, because the crime is concentrated in a few cities (such as Chicago, the home city of former president, even if some other similar cities like Baltimore and St. Louis are even much worse.)

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/445237/sweden-crime-ra...

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#75

Post by xorcist »

The family name Bildt is an old noble one with registered heraldry and absolutely not a surname you can take in Sweden. It's also the surname of the prime minister at the time Nils emigrated. Perhaps that's a bit of background to who puts on such a charade.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#76

Post by reitanqild »

bobdole1234 wrote: post #53
reitanqild wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants don't commit crimes. Poor people commit crimes. It happens that the poorest people in Sweden right now are immigrants. Person living in Norway here: No, being an immigrant doesn't make you a criminal. However, statistically speaking certain crimes are very much overrepresented with certain cultures. I'm not saying Europeans are perfect: a lot of bad stuff existed when I was young. But there where certain t…

You think rape and murder are ever going to be normalized? Really?

It is in some cultures, as long as it is against members of other groups.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#77

Post by kpil »

bobdole1234 wrote: post #51
kpil wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Immigrants don't commit crimes"... Well, if you import a lot of very poor and unskilled people, the result will be more crime. Actually, I think it's more complicated that that. I can't find the data but I remember a report that stated that Somali and Iraqi immigrants had 5 time higher conviction rate, and that more than 25% had been convicted for a crime, compared to ~5% of swedes. I also remembered that immigrants…

So, don't let them be poor.

I doubt that any other country gives more money in the form of subsidies or social assistance programmes, both per capita (giver and receiver) and in absolute numbers.

They also have free healthcare and enjoys free education up to university, including financial aid for studies and a home equipment loan.

There are also very few signs of structured racism, when looking at various ethnic groups with comparable education, etc, although it of course exists, just like all other biases and generalisations in a society.

There have been a substantial asylum related immigration for long enough that we can look at the second generation, and their level of education, crime, etc, and draw the conclusion that whatever we are doing, it's not really enough or possibly not even the correct things to do.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#78

Post by ptype »

jahaja wrote: post #73
ptype wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your claims of cherry-picking are nonsense. I have picked a few examples to support my argument of deteriorating journalistic quality. Aftonbladet and GP are mainstream newspapers. GP is not right wing by international standards. For international readers, it is worth pointing out that DN is definitely not a particularly right wing publication by any international standard. Sanandaji is a frequent commentator in Swed…

Your argument was not made towards "deteriorating journalistic quality". You made two wildly inaccurate statements and are simply not backing them up beyond presenting opinion - rather than scandal exposing - articles where most sources, at the very least, have been more criticized than DN. And while trying to prove your statements you link to a _tv-debate_, like who's the best tv-debater would matter. That video see…

Firstly, my comment regarding DN losing credibility was swiftly clarified elsewhere in this thread as an observation and in fact we have seen other commentators agreeing. I would welcome any observations, or even your personal opinion, you have made to the contrary. The development of DN actually saddens me.

Secondly, in my book, ofcourse being accused of lying, misusing statistics and covering up are journalistic scandals if you strive to be a premier journalistic publication. Maybe we have different expectations of journalism, but perhaps a softer term could have been used to save us both some excitement.

The TV debate was in a well known debate program on state television, and I'm sure you agree that it is very rare for a DN editor to openly receive such strong criticism from another journalist. I have no idea who posted that video on YouTube (I just remembered the debate and googled it) but the original source is state television, so that's an odd comment of you to make.

I haven't seen any sources from you either proving that the mainstream sources I provided as examples have been more criticised than DN.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#79

Post by jahaja »

ptype wrote: post #78
jahaja wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument was not made towards "deteriorating journalistic quality". You made two wildly inaccurate statements and are simply not backing them up beyond presenting opinion - rather than scandal exposing - articles where most sources, at the very least, have been more criticized than DN. And while trying to prove your statements you link to a _tv-debate_, like who's the best tv-debater would matter. That video see…

Firstly, my comment regarding DN losing credibility was swiftly clarified elsewhere in this thread as an observation and in fact we have seen other commentators agreeing. I would welcome any observations, or even your personal opinion, you have made to the contrary. The development of DN actually saddens me. Secondly, in my book, ofcourse being accused of lying, misusing statistics and covering up are journalistic sc…

I'm so tired of this tendency that one can apparently - with a straight face - use such hyperbolic language then still refuse to recant it even in the slightest even after failing to back it up beyond "Well, I think this is scandalous!". This is pointless.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#80

Post by kpil »

kpil wrote: post #77
bobdole1234 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, don't let them be poor.

I doubt that any other country gives more money in the form of subsidies or social assistance programmes, both per capita (giver and receiver) and in absolute numbers. They also have free healthcare and enjoys free education up to university, including financial aid for studies and a home equipment loan. There are also very few signs of structured racism, when looking at various ethnic groups with comparable educatio…

Personally, I think it's more related to that many immigrants have a hard time to understand the highly individualist society when coming from clan societies, the case that many of them have traditional and backwards values that is frowned upon in the rest of the society although it's never ever done in the open, the islamists and wahhabist propaganda that uses them for their own purposes, and even how we put them in areas where the brutalist architecture, disappointing, misguided, and dirt-cheap city planning amplifies the social group dynamic effects that could perhaps been kept in check in a more non-anonymous society (as explored by Philip Zimbardo.)

And class ( or socioeconomic background - there are related problems that are ignored ). And education. And the fact that we have not done anything to prevent this for the past 30 years.

Post reply on HN