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Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#71

Post by mc32 »

M_Grey wrote: post #65
mc32 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone insecure who does not retaliate is of little concern. Someone who can retaliate or do away with people in remote places using extreme methods is more about saying, "don't cross me or I will get you" and insecurity is kind of irrelevant at that point. It's more I don't want to get on this woman/man's bad side. I'm also not sure it's plain insecurity. I'm sure there are people not too far removed from him who i…

It's probably a rare person who is sane, intelligent, capable of detailed planning, and willing to potentially have a really nasty and protracted death. It seems to me that far more often you have people who are deluded in some way and don't perceive risk (bad planners, may not be particularly mentally fit), rare cases of extremely violent mental illness (not sane, bad planners), the highly motivated fanatic (good pl…

It reminds me of the Stauffenberg plot. And then there are the bodyguards who got Indira Gandhi --they did not care what happened to them, they "cared" about carrying out their mission. Although, it's quite possible both were equally motivated but one was just not lucky enough to carry things through.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#72

Post by Gustomaximus »

M_Grey wrote: post #48
amyjess wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for sheer elegance, I'll give it to the assassination of Georgi Markov by being poked with a ricin-tipped umbrella.

He was dead the very instant that ball was shot into him... he could have realized what had happened that instant and no one could have saved him; it really was diabolical.

Are you dead? If you got a knife and cut out that section of skin/muscle fairly quickly is it too late?

But it's terrifying. Also that video of the CIA people testifying about the heart attack drug. I find the 'we dont know' if it was natural vs assassination scarier as nefarious people are more able and probably willing to use it. When you see all the type of things the CIA was up to 50/60/70's there must be some crazy stuff we'll never know about.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#73

Post by chongli »

L_226 wrote: post #41
M_Grey wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah... like using Polonium to kill Litvinenko... this is all about sending a message.

Indeed, and the message was "I'm insecure about my position".

Emotionally insecure, sure, but extremely dangerous, obviously.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#74

Post by lazzlazzlazz »

knieveltech wrote: post #44

This is easily the most terrifying comment I've ever seen on Hacker News. You are a deeply scary human being. May I ask how do you know all of this? Edit: weird, I typically know ahead of time what's going to get downvoted. Didn't see it coming this time around. shrug

This is the most insanely exaggerated and ridiculous comment I have ever seen on Hacker News. I have no clue how you sleep at night.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#75

Post by sasas »

tlow wrote: post #20
sasas wrote: post #17

Interesting tid-bit from Wikipedia [1] In fiscal year 2008, the US Department of Defense released a study finding that the U.S. had dumped at least 124 tons of VX into the Atlantic Ocean off the coasts of New York/New Jersey and Florida, between 1969 and 1970. This material consisted of nearly 22,000 M55 rockets, 19 bulk containers holding 1,400 pounds (640 kg) each, and one M23 chemical landmine. [25] [1] https://en…

Yep. And who knows what the affects of that were. But I do not agree with the claim that this is interesting in this context as it seems irrelevant to the discussion.

> But I do not agree with the claim that this is interesting in this context as it seems irrelevant to the discussion

The discussion appears to be on the topic if we assume the topic is VX or nerve agents in general. I assume this is in line with your intention for posting a series of Wikipedia links on the subject in this thread, which I found both relevant and interesting.

The reasons why I suggested that the dumping of large quantities of nerve agents was an interesting fact is an inquisitive person may ask themselves -

- Is the product still down there under the ocean?

- What could be the environmental impact?

- What were they thinking at the time to dump such a hazardous material? Why didn't they use alternative means to destroy the material?

- Was this standard practise back then? If so what other deadly man made products are under the ocean?

- If they are still working to eradicate 5,950 tons of nerve agents in a single storage complex in Russia, how much did that country dump back during the cold war and would we actually ever find out? TFA says the 5,950 tons is only 14% of of Russian chemical weapons [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(nerve_agent)#Worldwide_VX_...

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#76

Post by mattnumbe »

flukus wrote: post #66
jbenz wrote: post #22

The Rock came out when I was 13 so needless to say, I'm a big fan. I absolutely thought VX Nerve Agent was fictional until today.

Not VX, but don't you remember this as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack

I actually ended up in the same article because VX is related to オウム真理教(Aum Shinrikyo), the group that was responsible for the gas attacks in Tokyo. They were also manufacturing VX and are the only ones on record to have used it to commit a murder, until now I guess... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#77

Post by rdtsc »

NamTaf wrote: post #40
ransom1538 wrote: post #37

WHY? Why kill people exotically? Why not just use a simple garrote with a thin wire? 10 seconds done, the head would be practically off. I am sure you could get a weird pair of head phones past security. If you poison someone with polonium/exotic nerve agent doesn't it narrow down the suspect pool? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...

Because slicing someone's head off requires you to be there, next to them, as it happens. You're standing next to the body as it gargles and bleeds everywhere and security will descend on you in a big way. Wiping someone's face then bailing is something that the target will shrug off as 'some crazy' until some time later it kills them. This buys you time to get out of the place before anyone realises the full extent…

I would even say it cares that other dissidents notice and understand exactly who did it. Had this been a robbery or some car accident it would not have been as effective. The message is "we are coming after you"

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#78

Post by _wp3r »

GigabyteCoin wrote: post #58
crdb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While addressing a spellbound audience of young officers, he would sometimes partially immerse one finger in a small beaker of pure VX for a few seconds. Without interrupting his lecture, he would then amble to a nearby sink and casually wash the deadly chemical from his finger. The teaching point was that VX could not enter the skin instantaneously, and that accidental exposure of a small area would not be harmful…

So all Kim Jong-Nam had to do to survive was walk into a washroom and wipe his face clean with soap and water?

He would have greatly increased his chances. Assuming that the agent used was run of the mill V/G agent and not a specialty delivery variety.

In reality atropine and pralidoxime(antidote sorta) administration would have most likely saved him, but it would be very unlikely for a medical professional to deduce that the threat was cholinesterase inhibition(nerve agent poisoning).

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#79

Post by sandworm101 »

M_Grey wrote: post #62
tlow wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I am merely a curious character who happens to read; occasionally on esoteric matters.

I'm glad to discover that I'm not alone in that, "Hmmm, I wonder if my internet history has put me on all of the lists yet?" reading pattern. On Wikipedia especially, the fun is opening an endlessly nesting series of related topics. Sometimes that can get... weird.

Researching chemcal weapons on wikipedia wont get you on any list. Asking people where you can buy the needed stuff, THAT is list worthy.

Anything on wikipedia was put there by someone. That someone is far more suspect than the readers. Material that is actually dangerous is quickly edited away. Unless you live somewhere properly dangerous or are already on a list. Such people should probably stay away from the internets all together as almost anything found online can be made to sound evil.

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