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A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

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Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#71

Post by pyrophane »

pjc50 wrote: post #25
Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

> So how do you protect yourself? Individually? It's extremely difficult other than "try not to appear suspicious" and bring a dumbphone when crossing borders. The real protection is collective. Stopping the current administration is only the beginning; the Democrats are merely "not as bad" on this kind of issue. Broader anti-racism and anti-racist-media action is needed, because otherwise this kind of arbitary bruta…

Unfortunately, I suspect that failing to have a the ability to grant border agents access to social media or email accounts will soon become grounds for detainment and further scrutiny by itself. If you are carrying a "dumb phone" or don't have email or social media set up on your phone, then what are you trying to hide?

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#72

Post by aaron-lebo »

brndnmtthws wrote: post #64
joshuaheard wrote: post #53

I don't see what this has to do with Trump's travel restrictions, other than it coincidentally happened at the same time. If the author is trying to imply this correlation is causation, there is no evidence in the article. That being said, no American should have to have his phone searched at the border, even with the stated border exceptions to the Fourth Amendment.

I hope you realize the job of the president is to instruct these agencies on how to conduct their operations. Don't defend people (CBP employees) which are are acting immorally, and possibly illegally. The Nazis said they were "just doing their job", and that defense did not stand up at the Nuremberg trials. Anyone who enforces orders of questionable legality is part of the problem (such as those executing these race…

Can we not make the leap from searches at border checkpoints (a major issue in and of itself) to murdering 6 million people in every thread?

It's a valid concern but that kind of language immediately turns people off and tilts the entire discussion one way.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#73

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

iak8god wrote: post #65
caminante wrote: post #20

Here's the Customs and Border Patrol policy in question [0] (see page 31). The EFF has a nice write-up on this topic [1]. It sounds like there's a "border search exemption" that bypasses the Fourth Amendment. The rationale was to ensure duties were paid and screen for "bad guys," drugs, weapons, diseased fruit, etc. [0] https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy... [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/…

Here's the ACLU's page on this, with a map of the 100 mile "constitution-free zone": https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-governments-100-mile-b... Note that this zone includes New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Seattle, etc, etc, and hence a really sizable portion of the US population.

Also note that that image is incomplete: international airports count as border crossings for CBP's purposes, so any city with one and the surrounding area in a 100 mile radius should be added.

Edit: About like this. Quick & dirty edit of the ACLU's .jpg, so the quality is poor: http://imgur.com/a/DqDeQ

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#74

Post by pveierland »

Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

> So how do you protect yourself?

I don't believe any of the technical solutions mentioned in this thread; using a dumb phone, multiple identities and/or false data for plausible deniability, wiping the phone before passing the border, is viable for a larger number of people. They also fail once a border agent insists on accessing an email account for which they know you have the password.

The only protection is through protecting people legally. Once the border agencies can insist on accessing your email and cloud storage before letting you enter the country it seems like any arbitrary thought crime can deny you access.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#75

Post by foolrush »

masklinn wrote: post #23
Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

> So how do you protect yourself? Wipe phone when you pass through border, restore afterwards. If you're really paranoid, if the device leaves your presence it's to be considered physically compromised.

Wouldn't it make more sense to stop the “Wait and see” approach and organize action against the problem?

It strikes me that yielding to unjust approaches is fundamentally problematic on two fronts:

- The action of forcing legal citizens to unlock their personal information certainly is questionable constitutionally.

- The idea that one can perform these sorts of workarounds is likely biased with privilege.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#76

Post by throwaway2084 »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #40

> Since the phone was issued by NASA... So it was already government property. I don't see the issue here.

Did he notify NASA Security office, or NASA OIG?

Curious what NASA OIG would have to say about this. They could determine that CBP actions were a security breach, and detain the CBP "agents" for questioning.

Their special agents have badges.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/27/37/92/2737...

Defense Criminal Investigative Services (DCIS) have been known to detain federal employees like TSA screeners over security issues.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#78

Post by ephemeral9235 »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #66
ephemeral9235 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on what your threat model is. I assume we're talking about random police or border searches of your phone. Not the NSA or some surveillance apparatus which can make warrantless inquiries to your ISP and social network providers at a moments notice. If we're facing a surveillance state without any internal obstructions then yes, far stricter opsec will be needed.

You're right of course. I guess I'm wondering if border guards at any point in the future will have quick access to a database, presumably with information from a company that has either voluntarily or been forced to provide data. Sir, we just ran your social networking accounts and according to our data you have another Facebook account that you did not provide access to...

Such a database would indicate two things a) law enforcement has access to such a database without warrants b) facebook provides such a database without warrants.

To me those would be reasons to leave the country and facebook.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#79

Post by jackmott »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #72
brndnmtthws wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you realize the job of the president is to instruct these agencies on how to conduct their operations. Don't defend people (CBP employees) which are are acting immorally, and possibly illegally. The Nazis said they were "just doing their job", and that defense did not stand up at the Nuremberg trials. Anyone who enforces orders of questionable legality is part of the problem (such as those executing these race…

Can we not make the leap from searches at border checkpoints (a major issue in and of itself) to murdering 6 million people in every thread? It's a valid concern but that kind of language immediately turns people off and tilts the entire discussion one way.

sorry, we will keep making that leap as long as the crazy person osnpresident because we all worry some approximation of that could happen now.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#80

Post by civilian »

vidarh wrote: post #44
masklinn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? Wipe phone when you pass through border, restore afterwards. If you're really paranoid, if the device leaves your presence it's to be considered physically compromised.

It is bizarre that we're now having to consider the type of preparation you previously would want to consider for places like China. I'm really not sure if I want to visit the US at all while Trump is in power. Not because I expect the chances of any severe problems are all that huge, but because the growing lack of predictability is just creating sufficient friction.

We've been searching phones at the US border long before Trump: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/11/30...

You are right to be outraged, but you are wrong to be fearful of Trump. You need to be fearful and angry at the government, regardless of who's the President.

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