Live data from Hacker News

Mathematical genius is fragile

medium.com

71–80 of 96 posts

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#71
post #2

The author lost me at "Mathematical genius resides within every one of us — most people just don’t know it yet." The movie Ratatouille captured the sentiment much better, "a great chef can be anyone". Which is not the same as "anyone can be a great chef". It seems the author is mixing up those two. I fully agree that gender, background, schooling, etc is not the key determination of genius. However, saying anyone cou…

Math is a high IQ game. Anyone who tells you otherwise is kidding themselves.

Mostly in the same way the basket ball is a tall persons game. Yet there have been a lot of very good basketball and quite a few brilliant players below 5'10" (the US median height).

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#72
I find it hard to accept the "you must be 7ft tall to play basketball" story about why people become good at something.

My own view is more something like what bodybuilders say. Some people find it harder to grow than others, but everyone can do it. And people who put effort into it will definitely be separable from people who don't, regardless of endowment.

Now as for who gets to be written into history books, there's a fair bit of randomness about that. A hard working person can well find that the only phd advisor who will take them wants them to work on some dead end. Or you may work on something hot, but other people will know it's hot, too, and they may well beat you to publication. Doesn't make you any dumber, but your name will not be enshrined in that theorem.

There's also a necessary confluence of factors that depends very much on your parents, specifically whether they figure out how to manage your development. Look at the current first-in-most-people's-minds genius, Terence Tao. Not only did his parents figure out that he was good at math, they somehow got him the right guidance. I'm guessing very few parents, even quite well educated ones, would know what to do if a guy like that turned up in their house. There's also the sheer randomness of whether you'll end up doing things that encourage the kid. Most parents, myself included, have very little idea of how to get a kid to do what's good for them. You laugh, unless you are a parent.

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 7ft tall pro basketball player resides within every one of us.

Not every 7' tall person is a great basketball player, and not every great basketball player is 7' tall. With all due respect, what you say is a consummate example of "dangerously bad idea that makes a good sound bite". Most mathematicians out there are not Hilbert, Gauss, Riemann, or Euler. They are reasonably smart people that work hard over long periods of time to learn their craft and their field, and make increm…

not every great basketball player is 7' tall

In fact look at any list of the greatest basketball players of all time. Very few of them are 7' tall. Now look at a list of pro basketball players over 7', most of them are middle of the road journeyman players most people haven't heard of.

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#74

I find it hard to accept the "you must be 7ft tall to play basketball" story about why people become good at something. My own view is more something like what bodybuilders say. Some people find it harder to grow than others, but everyone can do it. And people who put effort into it will definitely be separable from people who don't, regardless of endowment. Now as for who gets to be written into history books, there…

Isn't a part of a person's endowment their ability to work hard and put in effort where it's required, when it's required? The 7ft tall thing is an example of an easy to see factor, which some people have, and some don't. In reality, as you say, there are unlimited factors going into a person's greatness (or lack-of).

By the way, there was a study where, given the same weight lifting program, a couple people gained tons of muscle, most gained some, some gained none, and a few even lost muscle. Not everyone can gain appreciable muscle, and not everyone can get good at math (although most can, and the average person underestimates their ability to do so).

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 7ft tall pro basketball player resides within every one of us.

Not every 7' tall person is a great basketball player, and not every great basketball player is 7' tall. With all due respect, what you say is a consummate example of "dangerously bad idea that makes a good sound bite". Most mathematicians out there are not Hilbert, Gauss, Riemann, or Euler. They are reasonably smart people that work hard over long periods of time to learn their craft and their field, and make increm…

I doubt most people have the desire to be productive mathematicians, which is as required to be a good mathematician as being 7' tall is for playing basketball (aka not actually required, but big help).

"Most people can be productive mathematicians, they just don't believe in themselves."

Most people can X if Y, where Y is not the usual case. Again, believing in yourself, having the desire to be great at something, etc, are all included in the extremely large set of factors which determine whether someone will be good at any given activity. To say a large portion of the population can be good at some activity, knowing full-while that they do not possess most of the helpful attributes, is disingenuous.

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#77
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every 7' tall person is a great basketball player, and not every great basketball player is 7' tall. With all due respect, what you say is a consummate example of "dangerously bad idea that makes a good sound bite". Most mathematicians out there are not Hilbert, Gauss, Riemann, or Euler. They are reasonably smart people that work hard over long periods of time to learn their craft and their field, and make increm…

not every great basketball player is 7' tall In fact look at any list of the greatest basketball players of all time. Very few of them are 7' tall. Now look at a list of pro basketball players over 7', most of them are middle of the road journeyman players most people haven't heard of.

I feel like this is a trick of statistics. Very few people, in general, are 7' or taller, and very few people are the best at basketball.

See (1), and replace "have disease" with "7' or taller", and "test comes back positive" with "good at basketball".

1: https://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/30002.6.shtml

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#78
post #2

The author lost me at "Mathematical genius resides within every one of us — most people just don’t know it yet." The movie Ratatouille captured the sentiment much better, "a great chef can be anyone". Which is not the same as "anyone can be a great chef". It seems the author is mixing up those two. I fully agree that gender, background, schooling, etc is not the key determination of genius. However, saying anyone cou…

The movie Ratatouille captured the sentiment much better, "a great chef can be anyone". Which is not the same as "anyone can be a great chef".

The movie Ratatouille presented that statement without any evidence, and imo it is incredibly misleading, the preponderance of psychological evidence goes against it. This paper is a good starting place: http://cogprints.org/656/1/innate.htm

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#80
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only have anecdotal plus a bit of thinking...? Talent is pursued interest; genius is pursued passion. Most people won't have passion for mathematics, even if such passions were heartily encouraged - at the very least, because there are so many other things to also be passionate about.

I can get behind that, if we defined genius to be pursued passion. Not everyone has a passion for mathematics, that is true. I just thought what the root post was implying is that even if you're passionate, you might not have the potential to achieve genius-level skill because that would somehow be genetically predetermined. If that was what he was implying, I'd love to see some evidence to support the claim.

I feel as if it is also somewhat true in that regard. I have been extremely passionate about music for more than half my life yet I am still horrible. I believe the same applies with many other skills in life.
Post reply on HN