“Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth • Hacker News Board

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#71

Post by Helmet » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:13 PM UTC

loopdoend wrote: post #53

mcrump wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It's a lot of fun. I quit drinking about 6 months ago and I couldn't feel better. I have a lot of fun with my drinking and non-drinking friends.

There's a huge difference between not drinking because you quit and never having tried it. There is no doubt that you can have fun without drinking. The problem with never trying it is that you close yourself off to a massive part of the Western human experience. It is baked into the culture and is also a huge part of business relations. Being a lifelong teetotaller is in some ways tantamount to being a virgin.

I'm not sure why you're being down voted, but I generally agree. And I'm not passing judgement either - there is nothing wrong inherently wrong with drinking or chastity - but it is an undeniable part of our culture.

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#72

Post by rifung » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:13 PM UTC

Tycho wrote: post #50

_m8fo wrote: post #5

I've never drank before, so I'm a terrible person to comment about this: but what exactly is the supposed benefit of drinking? I go to dinner parties, clubs, etc. and it seems that alcohol is everywhere. People mention that its social lubricant, but I just don't get it. I've had great times with groups that don't drink any alcohol: sometimes we just eat great food, play games, etc. I've had similar experiences with m…

Beer has good health benefits. It doesn't have sugar in it, so it's something you can drink without damaging your teeth. It doesn't have caffeine, so it's not going to stop you sleeping (hence why people meet for a coffee during the day and a 'drink' in the evening). Apparently it helps your cholesterol. It also kills germs/bacteria - when I was in India I tried to drink beer every day and I never got sick. In terms…

It's a bit unfair to only list the health benefits of beer and the downsides of other beverages.

Alcohol is also a carcinogen and even if you stop drinking the effects still lingers for at least 15 years: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/a...

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#73

Post by ams6110 » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:15 PM UTC

isaac_is_goat wrote: post #41

slobotron wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are predisposed to some genetic condition (say cancer), healthy living (excersize, eating right) can help delay the onset and improve outcomes. (s.o. is nurse and sees that stuff all the time, fwiw)

Isn't this a given though...? Exercise and eating right will improve outcomes no matter what genetics you have.

What if you don't like exercise and like to eat?

A lifetime of forcing oneself to do something unappealing and then topping it off with denial of things one likes doesn't sound like a overall good trade, even if you live longer.

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#74

Post by bhalperin » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

rb2k_ wrote: post #9

carbocation wrote: post #3

Mendelian randomization studies also support the notion that less alcohol intake is probably better for everyone (from a strictly cardiovascular health standpoint): http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4164

Isn't Mendelian Randomization prone to pleiotropy? I've never understood how people can control for that without a complete understanding of the genome.

Do you know any good overviews of Mendelian randomization?

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#75

Post by cJ0th » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

omarchowdhury wrote: post #62

cJ0th wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, tea Honestly, as a tea lover it baffles me how people can prefer alcohol at parties. A high quality sencha can make you "tea drunk" which is what I prefer over being ordinary drunk. The magical combination of caffeine and l-theanin (and maybe some unknown stuff) can put you in a relaxed, slightly euphoric state with a thirst for action. Oddly enough, at times it can even reduce the power negative feeli…

I am the same exact way. Can you please recommend where to buy the teas you recommend for the stated effects?

I buy at some (local) German stores so these are probably out of the question for you. But I think any serious tea dealer (they know which region their teas are from, what cultivar they are etc...) will do. However, r/tea (reddit's tea community) has a list of their favorite vendors. Maybe you find something good there.[0] I think Ocha is rather popular over there.

As far as the tea is concerned, tea starting at roughly 12 (€|$) / 100g (maybe a little cheaper if you're lucky) tends to have this effect. Furthermore, the effect also depends on finding the right steeping time, water temperature and tea-leaves/water ratio for each individual tea. Moreover, I suspect different teas work for different people. If you're "seriously" into Sencha it's advisable to get a Kyusu which is a traditional Japanese teapot that helps bringing out the best flavor.

Incidentally, I find tolerance builds, unfortunately, rather quickly when I drink Sencha very frequently. So at times it seems like a good idea to skip it for a few days.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/tea/wiki/vendors/page_01

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#76

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

droopyEyelids wrote: post #34

jimrandomh wrote: post #29

A lot of research has shown supposed health benefits of alcohol, but it all has something in common: it's based entirely on observational data, with no intervention performed. Observational studies have an extremely poor track record in health and especially in nutrition, and are not experiments, but they get reported as though they were science. So we get reversals like this one. (Which was entirely expected.)

Thank you, I hadn't known there was a distinction between "observational" and "interventional" studies, but now it seems like an important idea I could use to parse all the pop science that people talk about all day. http://www.isupportresearch.com/whats-the-difference-between... (short definitions)

I like this link better:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4083571/

The short definitions from your link seem to say that interventional studies are ones with interventions, and observational studies don't have interventions except when they do. This is pretty confusing.

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#77

Post by nxc18 » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:25 PM UTC

mortenjorck wrote: post #2

The headline looks like another entry in the endless "x is good for you / x is bad for you" genre of science journalism, but the article is actually a valuable object lesson in the complexities of trying to control for variables in any study. It's also a timely reminder of how socioeconomic factors remain one of the biggest predictors of health outcomes.

I always just took them as a fun excuse for that glass of wine with dinner (that I would have had anyway). The pre-altfact alternative fact if you will.

Excuse me while I go eat some chocolate "for Alzheimer's prevention". ;)

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#78

Post by criddell » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:25 PM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #19

OK, so moderate drinking is not good for you, it's just that being wealthier and better educated makes people more likely to be moderate drinkers. So, hopefully the causal explanation is that drinking moderately makes you smarter and richer, and eventually healthier.

I don't drink a lot, so I guess I should focus on increasing my wealth.

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#79

Post by tonyedgecombe » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:26 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #66

Or maybe moderate alcohol makes you wealthy, thereby making you healthier ;)

It's interesting that the drugs society accepts (caffeine, alcohol, tobacco) all help you cope with excessive work whereas the ones we ban all have a negative impact on work.

Re: “Health benefits” of moderate drinking disappear when controlling for wealth

#80

Post by criddell » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC

aswanson wrote: post #52

vazamb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non drinker you probably don't like the taste of any or most alcoholic beverages. Whether it is conditioning or not, I do enjoy the taste of a good beer. There is not more 'benefit' to it than eating good food.

What's your favourite beer?

For me, the answer is it depends.

What I buy depends on the context. If it's the middle of summer and I'm at a baseball game, I'll always get a hot dog and Budweiser.

Tonight I'm going to grill something and I'll have a Shiner Bock with it. Right now in my fridge I have two cans of Guinness (the doo hickey in the can always impresses me).