Let's stop bashing C# • Hacker News Board

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#71

Post by WorldMaker » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 5:14 PM UTC

hvidgaard wrote: post #46

pionar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C# is _guided_ by Microsoft. You can join in on the language design if you want[1]. The .NET platform is now completely open source[2]. The compiler (Roslyn), tooling (cli), the runtime (coreclr), and the standard library (corefx) are all listed there, all under the Apache 2.0 license. What's not open source? [1] https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang [2] https://github.com/dotnet/

Ultimately, Microsoft decides the future of C# and what goes into it. That is the big issue for some people.

Because Python doesn't have a Benevolent Dictator for Life? Or that Oracle is somehow a more benevolent controller of the Java ecosystem than Microsoft could ever control C#/.NET?

Or would you prefer committee ownership like JavaScript (EcmaScript)? Maybe something like http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecm...?

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#72

Post by WorldMaker » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

Matthias247 wrote: post #15

adgasf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that true anymore? I was under the impression that .NET is fully open source: https://dotnetfoundation.org/ Besides that though, C# is much nicer than Java and fills a similar niche.

That covers the new .NET core parts, not the classic .NET. The classic .NET framework contains lots of components (e.g. WinForms, but also others) which are mainly wrappers around Windows/COM components. Therefore they can't be fully open source. Nevertheless the .NET core and open sourcing effort is great from my POV.

The classic .NET framework is available at Reference Source:

https://referencesource.microsoft.com/ https://github.com/Microsoft/referencesource

It's under a proper Open Source license now too (the MIT license).

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#73

Post by mikestew » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 5:29 PM UTC

And while we're at it, let's stop beating our spouses!

Seriously, that's one of the bigger straw man posts I've read in a while. Sure, I'm confident that somewhere on the big, wide Internet claims such as those listed by the author can be found. And some folks seem entirely convinced that the Earth is flat.

You want "bashing"? C#'s got nothing on, say, php. C#, AFAICT from circles I pay attention to, is loved far more than it's hated. But, as someone else in this comment section pointed out, it's a hell of a way to generate clicks.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#74

Post by SomeHacker44 » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

Just the opposite. I've wished for more than a decade that Java would be more like C#. Even more since Oracle took over the stewardship of Java.

With .NET Core and Microsoft's new CEO's vision, I am excited for the future of C# (and F#) and very happy to put Java behind me. The CLR is a lot nicer than the JVM too.

Now if only the ClojureCLR could get the support that ClojureJVM had, I'd be done with the JVM entirely.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#75

Post by steego » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 6:22 PM UTC

topbanana wrote: post #56

nightski wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really sounds like a lack of knowledge of the .NET ecosystem. Every area you mentioned has extensive library coverage. In addition there are several C# IDEs available, including from JetBrains who creates IntelliJ! Roslyn makes fancy features such as auto complete available to text editors as well such as VS Code or Atom.

Not to mention that the best C# IDE is better than any of the Java ones.

I have to disagree. Unlike the VS Resharper plugin, the JetBrains IDEs are really good. Unlike VS, they rarely lock the UI thread doing paternalistic busywork that adds very marginal value to my work.

I'm use VS all the time, so I'm not going to dump on it too much, but there is definitely room for improvement. I'm only vaguely familiar with VS 2017, but I understand they've put their IDE on a diet.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#76

Post by GordonS » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 6:22 PM UTC

cryptarch wrote: post #35

.NET Core isn't packaged for Debian, Fedora and CentOS, and for Ubuntu you have to add a separate PPA. That makes it an instant no-go for me. I'm not a software packager and I'm not becoming one to try new and unstable C# tooling. Visual Studio Community was a pretty terrible experience and I don't intend to spend more of my time on unreliable Microsoft products.

Just recently they started releasing statically linked, distro-agnostic binaries.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#77

Post by ahoka » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 7:00 PM UTC

throwawaydbfif wrote: post #55

nightski wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really sounds like a lack of knowledge of the .NET ecosystem. Every area you mentioned has extensive library coverage. In addition there are several C# IDEs available, including from JetBrains who creates IntelliJ! Roslyn makes fancy features such as auto complete available to text editors as well such as VS Code or Atom.

Okay so my latest issue http2... In C# you have to be running the newest version of Windows to use it. You know how happy my boss was to hear that we needed new server licenses to use http2? Very. Use .NET core? Not ready yet for production yet but probably will be in a few years. In Java I can run Jetty or Netty on whatever and use http2. Old Os or whatever doesn't matter because the protocol isn't tied to the OS ne…

Net core wouldn't help as kestrel does not support http2 yet. We just put an nginx proxy in front of our cluster now, which may or may not solve your issues.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#78

Post by ahoka » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 7:02 PM UTC

topbanana wrote: post #56

nightski wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really sounds like a lack of knowledge of the .NET ecosystem. Every area you mentioned has extensive library coverage. In addition there are several C# IDEs available, including from JetBrains who creates IntelliJ! Roslyn makes fancy features such as auto complete available to text editors as well such as VS Code or Atom.

Not to mention that the best C# IDE is better than any of the Java ones.

To be honest VS is horrible compared to NetBeans... Maybe it's on par if you pay extra for resharper, but I find that ridiculous.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#79

Post by Adutude » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

I used C# to write an Excel toolbar. The big problem I had with it is that there were features they had only implemented in Visual Basic/C++. It appeared that C# was incomplete in it's implementation of MS API's

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#80

Post by iLemming » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 7:24 PM UTC

To be honest I kinda hate Anders Hejlsberg. If it wasn't him I wouldn't have gotten myself into Turbo Pascal and later Delphi and later into C#. I would've probably looked into C and Lisps. I spent years thinking Windows is the best OS and VS is the best IDE. I wish there was someone 20 years ago to stop me from falling into that trap. Well, I broke out of my bubble and now I feel free. No matter how nice it may look - dotnet is a mental prison.