Other frameworks don't have the DHH Problem.
DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
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Re: DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the last few months I've built a brand new Node + Express application, and I've built a brand new Rails 5.x one. ES6 has taken the edge off of some of the more obnoxious parts of JavaScript, but it still has a long way to go to catch up to Ruby, and Express is a cheap imitation of Rails. It takes me over a day to get an Express application up and running. There's dozens of dependencies to wrangle into place. There…
Rails is omakase. Node is a grocery and a kitchen supply store. Approaching either as if it's the other is a sure recipe for regret.
Node is like walking into a Home Depot when you want a house. Technically you can build one out of the bits they can provide, but it's a ton of work.
The thing is Node could offer the Rails out-of-the-box experience through a package that provided sane defaults. There's nothing preventing people from doing this but cultural resistance.
Re: DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
#73Maybe Rails has changed from when I last used it five years ago, but I dealt with many of the issues DHH makes against other technology. > That people spent hours, if not days, just setting up the skeletons. The basic build configurations. I spent hours everyday getting the asset pipeline to work, or it would break again, meaning I would have to fix it again. > The vast majority of activity today is for yet another o…
>>Every week the developers want to switch out some module for another module within Rails because it was the hot new thing.
You misunderstood DHH's point. He's talking about well-integrated defaults. He isn't talking about preventing people from using other modules if they choose to do so.
I mean, if your developers want to try the hot new thing every week, Rails isn't the problem. That much should be obvious.
Re: DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rails is omakase. Node is a grocery and a kitchen supply store. Approaching either as if it's the other is a sure recipe for regret.
Node is like walking into a Home Depot when you want a house. Technically you can build one out of the bits they can provide, but it's a ton of work. The thing is Node could offer the Rails out-of-the-box experience through a package that provided sane defaults. There's nothing preventing people from doing this but cultural resistance.
If you want to build a house, go to Home Depot. If you want to buy one and move in, go to a real estate agent. Standing in the middle of Home Depot complaining about how no one there seems to want to talk about about plats or points doesn't seem like a very worthwhile use of time.
There are a large number of projects offering a Rails-style OOTB experience in Node. None of them is blessed as the Node framework. This is because there is no one to do the blessing. Node's developer culture being one you find unsatisfactory is not an example of "resistance". It is an example of difference. And if you do not find the Node style to provide you comfort, there is absolutely no requirement anywhere that you partake of it.
Re: DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It takes me over a day to get an Express application up and running. I feel so much better after seeing this sentiment here. I've tried to dip my toe into the node.js world repeatedly only to feel like I'm trudging through setup for hours. Of course I may have incorrect memories of how difficult/easy it was to set up my first rails app however long ago.
I should also add it "only" takes me a day because I can crib from a half dozen other Express projects I've created in the past and cherry-pick cut-and-paste parts that I like. As one example my web app Gulpfile has evolved significantly from the first iteration and it would take multiple days to recreate all of that from scratch. The Rails Asset Pipeline might be obnoxiously rigid, but at least it works without havi…
Forgive me, but what apps do you work on that have such a complex and lengthy gulpfile?
Re: DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
#76Rails showed us all that web development didn't have to be PHP and Apache and constant headaches. Node and Phoenix and the modern paradigm in general wouldn't have come into existence, or achieved the popularity they have, without an act like Rails to follow. That's awesome, and I respect it for that. But can it truly be said that Rails has a purpose today? Its default performance remains lousy with any kind of load.…
Agreed. Would love to see DHH build an opinionated framework for node rather than waxing poetic about Ruby.
This is the first time I've seen someone complain that Ruby is a worse language than JS(ES5). Care to elaborate for those curious?
Re: DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
I should also add it "only" takes me a day because I can crib from a half dozen other Express projects I've created in the past and cherry-pick cut-and-paste parts that I like. As one example my web app Gulpfile has evolved significantly from the first iteration and it would take multiple days to recreate all of that from scratch. The Rails Asset Pipeline might be obnoxiously rigid, but at least it works without havi…
Forgive me, but what apps do you work on that have such a complex and lengthy gulpfile?
Nothing exotic but even a routine web application can have 150-250 lines of Gulp directives. Zero of this is provided for you.
Each chunk is fairly small, but they add up. You want linting, auto-restart on changes, tests, your various asset chains to compile things correctly, etc.
Re: DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
#78Re: DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rails is omakase. Node is a grocery and a kitchen supply store. Approaching either as if it's the other is a sure recipe for regret.
Node is like walking into a Home Depot when you want a house. Technically you can build one out of the bits they can provide, but it's a ton of work. The thing is Node could offer the Rails out-of-the-box experience through a package that provided sane defaults. There's nothing preventing people from doing this but cultural resistance.
People do this, Node isn't a framework.
Walmart labs has contributed some great out-of-the-box, with hapi.js and now http://www.electrode.io/
Re: DHH answers: What makes Rails a framework worth learning in 2017?
#80I admire the way DHH writes .. confident and persuasive. However, I'd just like to point out that in the same span of time JavaEE has undergone significant simplification (omakase API standards, anyone ;)) and if you check out the work of Adam Bien, you'll quickly find old myths of bloated memory consumption and fiddly XML configuration debunked. Java is also lucky to have a parallel full-featured stack in the Spring…
Can you point to some specifics by Adam Bien? I'm very curious but don't know where to begin.
start with his youtube series on JavaEE dockerized microservices, and go from there