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Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

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Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#71

Post by throw_away_777 »

randlet wrote: post #20

This is a pretty common career path I think once people realize that finding a well paying physics gig is much much tougher than just becoming a developer. Every physicist has at least some programming experience and are generally adept at problem solving. Coding was always way more fun than doing 4th year/grad school level physics for me too. Also, it is especially tough to get a job if you're a mediocre physicist (…

On average, a tenured physics professor will graduate a bit more than 10 PhD students over the course of their career. Physics as a field is not growing, so at most 10% of PhD students become professors. If you don't become a tenured professor there are very few jobs that aren't postdocs, and even if you wanted to you can't keep doing postdocs forever.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#72

Post by chillacy »

ythn wrote: post #14
circlefavshape wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/me raises hand Degree in physics, working software for 20 years and still feel like an impostor ... not that I remember any physics at this stage

Impostor syndrome seems bogus but only because I've never experienced it and therefore can't understand it. Why do you feel like an impostor? The world is analog, not digital. There's no rite of passage that will suddenly switch you from being an "impostor" to being "legitimate". I've met EE majors who turned out to be better software developers than CS majors and vice versa.

Someone's perception of their abilities is (usually) not the same as their actual abilities—that is, some people will over/underestimate themselves, which manifests as overconfidence or low self esteem. Sometimes its in a specific area too, like one person who thinks they're god's gift to programming (when they actually cause more problems than they think) but also hold the simultaneous belief that they're unattractive and un-datable to the opposite sex (the reality is somewhere in between).

> I can't understand something so it must not be real

Maybe that's a problem with you more than reality.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#73

Post by whorleater »

crazypyro wrote: post #61
URSpider94 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four years would be on the very short end these days. Most doctoral programs in math and the sciences are a MINIMUM of four years, with average terms creeping up to 6. Never say never, but a 2-year doctorate is pretty much unheard-of. Some people think of this as 2 years for a Masters and 2 more for PhD, but in practice most hard science programs don't really offer a true Masters program. When I got my doctorate, a b…

Don't some universities give MS diplomas out to people who make it so far in the program, but drop out before getting their PhD as a kind of "well, here's something for your work"?

Yeah those are usually referred to as "terminal masters", meaning that you terminated your education with as MS.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#74

Post by NumberSix »

crazypyro wrote: post #63
NumberSix wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of the phrase "potentially permanent positions" in the AIP report for industry positions, especially in the computer industry, is highly misleading. Academia, including some government labs and institutes, has tenured positions and other positions with guarantees of job security until retirement. The vast majority of industry employees are "at will" and can be laid off at any time for any reason or no reason.…

FWIW, I basically interpreted it as full-time employment, but they are definitely playing with the wording a little bit and the data isn't clear on the level of employment at all.

The report is probably aimed at young people, college students in particular, investigating pursuing a Ph.D., who often are unfamiliar with the work world. "Potentially permanent positions" in the computer industry is not going to fool someone who has been working in the computer industry more than a few years. College or high school students are a different matter and won't automatically equate "potential permanent position" and "at will full time position."

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#75

Post by jessriedel »

throw_away_777 wrote: post #71
randlet wrote: post #20

This is a pretty common career path I think once people realize that finding a well paying physics gig is much much tougher than just becoming a developer. Every physicist has at least some programming experience and are generally adept at problem solving. Coding was always way more fun than doing 4th year/grad school level physics for me too. Also, it is especially tough to get a job if you're a mediocre physicist (…

On average, a tenured physics professor will graduate a bit more than 10 PhD students over the course of their career. Physics as a field is not growing, so at most 10% of PhD students become professors. If you don't become a tenured professor there are very few jobs that aren't postdocs, and even if you wanted to you can't keep doing postdocs forever.

Do you have a source for the rough number 10? I'd have guessed the average is more, even if the median is 10ish.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#76

Post by NumberSix »

batbomb wrote: post #66
NumberSix wrote: post #43

This migration of physicists to the Silicon Valley and computer industry is not new. It has been true at least since the first big physics employment bubble crashed in the late 1960's, early 1970's. The post-Sputnik boom in physics degrees and grad students produced a huge surplus of physicists by the late 1960's. Dennis Ritchie started at Bell Labs in 1967. Back in the 60's, 70's, early 80's a fair number of physici…

Part of that is because there was only physics and math degrees up to around the 60s. There wasn't really EE or CS, and even when there was, most the professors were originally trained as physicists.

There were definitely many EE degrees. Electrical technology dates back to the telegraph, telephones, lights, early electric power in the 1800's followed by radio in the 1920's. Richard Feynman started out as a EE at MIT in 1934 and was one of only a small number of students who got a Physics degree in his class. Most MIT students got EE and other engineering degrees. EE was hot in the 1930's It is true that CS is a new field in the 1960's and 1970's.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#77

Post by ythn »

chillacy wrote: post #72
ythn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impostor syndrome seems bogus but only because I've never experienced it and therefore can't understand it. Why do you feel like an impostor? The world is analog, not digital. There's no rite of passage that will suddenly switch you from being an "impostor" to being "legitimate". I've met EE majors who turned out to be better software developers than CS majors and vice versa.

Someone's perception of their abilities is (usually) not the same as their actual abilities—that is, some people will over/underestimate themselves, which manifests as overconfidence or low self esteem. Sometimes its in a specific area too, like one person who thinks they're god's gift to programming (when they actually cause more problems than they think) but also hold the simultaneous belief that they're unattracti…

> I can't understand something so it must not be real

I never said that, don't twist my words. I said it seems bogus because I've never experienced it and I don't understand it. I never said it isn't real - it probably is; I just have a hard time relating to it and accepting it.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#78

Post by FlorianRappl »

ejrowley wrote: post #31

I studied physics, with intention of becoming a developer (which I did). I didn't have much appetite for a CS course and felt the physics would give me a broader set of skills.

I followed a similar path and can only agree on the attitude. Most of the relevant CS knowledge is just that: knowledge. Studying physics is usually less about knowledge and more about general problem solving skills.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#79

Post by koolba »

URSpider94 wrote: post #57
koolba wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four years? Is it common for a Physics PhD to take that long? I thought most fields are closer to two years.

Four years would be on the very short end these days. Most doctoral programs in math and the sciences are a MINIMUM of four years, with average terms creeping up to 6. Never say never, but a 2-year doctorate is pretty much unheard-of. Some people think of this as 2 years for a Masters and 2 more for PhD, but in practice most hard science programs don't really offer a true Masters program. When I got my doctorate, a b…

Ah I must have been mixing up Masters and PhD.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#80

Post by avn2109 »

NumberSix wrote: post #74
crazypyro wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I basically interpreted it as full-time employment, but they are definitely playing with the wording a little bit and the data isn't clear on the level of employment at all.

The report is probably aimed at young people, college students in particular, investigating pursuing a Ph.D., who often are unfamiliar with the work world. "Potentially permanent positions" in the computer industry is not going to fool someone who has been working in the computer industry more than a few years. College or high school students are a different matter and won't automatically equate "potential permanent…

"Potentially permanent positions" is a euphemism for "tenure track research job."
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