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Open offices are bad for us

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Re: Open offices are bad for us

#71

Post by bryanlarsen »

jMyles wrote: post #4

Am I the only one left on HN who prefers open plan? I've done some of my best work for open plan companies. I have a particularly fond memory of when Reelio rented space at Blueprint (healthcare incubator in NYC). We stayed up very late, listened to loud music, and did some of the best work of our lives. I remember one night in particular, listening to the soundtrack from "O Brother Where Art Thou," when asynchrony a…

How big were the companies you worked for? Some studies show that the benefits of open offices exceed the drawbacks for small companies.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#72

Post by throw2016 »

Open office is about economics and limits choice. Privacy does not preclude the freedom to socialize when required or work temporarily in common spaces for some project. The other way there is no choice. Most of us who have been to boarding schools have fond memories but that does not mean we prefer to live in dorms our whole life.

Will the person negotiating deals or employee salaries be in a open office? No because there are certain kind of jobs that require privacy.

Similarly creative thinking is not a group but solitary activity that requires privacy and warrants private space and programming and creating things from scratch is creative. Either the company does not perceive the work as creative or fails to respect its employees work needs.

Usually these decisions are taken in arbitrary ways by a few folks in management who hang on to their privacy. And once these decisons are made it's difficult to reverse.

Theoretically in capitalism if workers prefer private cabins companies who continue to offer them stand to attract a higher quality and volume of candidates but in the real world even before you can exercise that 'capitalist choice' its taken away from you by the race to the bottom, so you are effectively left with no choice.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#73

Post by JoeAltmaier »

dx034 wrote: post #42
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely, open offices with cubicles can be more expensive than building drywall walls to make closed offices. And the much-vaunted flexibility of cubicles is way, way overrated. In my experience, cubicles sit in the same place for years. Any benefit of re-using them is lost. Also if the company is growing, new ones get bought all the time, so old ones aren't re-used anyway. Its obvious on the face of it: re-usable…

Event though dry walls are cheap, you cannot just install them as you can do with cubicles. You'd have to change ventilation to work for all rooms, have proper lights for every cubicle, adhere to fire restrictions (probably alarms in every small room) and will likely need to use more space per employee. Cubicles or open plan is by far the cheapest way to set up an office since you only have one room that you need to…

I had a couple office spaces built out. While we used cubicles for odd spaces (no light/no sprinkler) we tried to use built offices as much as possible. Because it was much, much cheaper. Hundreds of dollars instead of thousands.

You can always double-up in a 10X12 office if you grow. And until then, its very nice. And cheap.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#74

Post by JoeAltmaier »

johnward wrote: post #48
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely, open offices with cubicles can be more expensive than building drywall walls to make closed offices. And the much-vaunted flexibility of cubicles is way, way overrated. In my experience, cubicles sit in the same place for years. Any benefit of re-using them is lost. Also if the company is growing, new ones get bought all the time, so old ones aren't re-used anyway. Its obvious on the face of it: re-usable…

Is someone building 4x4' drywall "offices" somewhere?

Build bigger; double up. Its still better than sharing with 50 people.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#76

Post by searine »

jMyles wrote: post #43
kbart wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We stayed up very late, listened to loud music, and did some of the best work of our lives." No offense, but that sounds like some kind of boys club, not professional working environment. Staying up late = no respect for private life (unless you've signed for it), loud arbitrary music = forced culture implications (why do I have to listen to the music you like?). Yes, probably our work place expectations differs imm…

Your comment doesn't resonate with me. Have you worked in an early- or mid-stage startup in NYC or the Bay Area in the past... 10 years? > No offense, but that sounds like some kind of boys club, not professional working environment That's a strange value judgment; I'm not really sure what to think about it. At the end of the day, the company is still growing and meeting its goals. It is also still facilitating the d…

> Hardly disrespect for private life.

Your are mistaking respect for private life with being a "company man".

Instead of setting professional boundaries the company in this case integrated themselves into your identity/family/life.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#77

Post by cmonfeat »

johnward wrote: post #48
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely, open offices with cubicles can be more expensive than building drywall walls to make closed offices. And the much-vaunted flexibility of cubicles is way, way overrated. In my experience, cubicles sit in the same place for years. Any benefit of re-using them is lost. Also if the company is growing, new ones get bought all the time, so old ones aren't re-used anyway. Its obvious on the face of it: re-usable…

Is someone building 4x4' drywall "offices" somewhere?

Right, the cost savings in going with cubes over offices is not in materials. It's in the amount of people per sq ft you can jam into one office.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#78

Post by Retric »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30
smelendez wrote: post #21

Open offices are awful, but they're here to stay for the same reason more adults are living with roommates and relatives: high real estate prices. Working remotely is one solution, but many companies don't think it would work for them. Personally, I'd make the shared area for solitary work only: no work discussions longer than a minute at work areas (use a conference room, take a walk or Slack), no eating at work are…

Strangely, open offices with cubicles can be more expensive than building drywall walls to make closed offices. And the much-vaunted flexibility of cubicles is way, way overrated. In my experience, cubicles sit in the same place for years. Any benefit of re-using them is lost. Also if the company is growing, new ones get bought all the time, so old ones aren't re-used anyway. Its obvious on the face of it: re-usable…

This is one of those cases where middle management is harming the company's long term interests for personal benefits. An annual review or resume benefits from saved X$/year as long as other costs are hidden. Many managers also just like walking past the cube farm to their office.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#79

Post by croon »

mattmanser wrote: post #70
OpenDrapery wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decision maker always spins open office as some kind of collaborative, productivity enhancer. But we all know the real reason is cost.

I've always got the feeling more often the reason is trust, they don't trust their employees to work without someone looking at them all the time.

Through many experiences I think you're right. However that is an issue that could be solved by being better at measuring productivity.

If I can produce better results while playing games for 4 hours and working for 4 hours in a closed office than I could while "working diligently" for 8 hours in an open office, then it's hard to argue for the value of visually supervising someone.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#80

Post by romanovcode »

dx034 wrote: post #53
Raphmedia wrote: post #19

Diseases and sickness are the worst part of open offices. One day one person gets sick. The second day the person to his left also gets sick. The day after, half of the open office is sick. After a week, the entire office is sick. You can almost track the migration of the disease across the room.

That's why good managers will tell their employee to go home when they're ill. There are companies that have strict policies for that, to avoid exactly this problem. Even though it's a problem that probably mostly affects flexible working space. If you don't share your desk with anyone else, you should usually be >3ft away from other people, lowering the risk for contagion.

Yeah, and this should be encouraged by everyone, not only managers. You should definitely tell your workmate to go home if he is sick.
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