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The Real Name Fallacy

blog.coralproject.net

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Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#71

Post by grzm »

mjolk wrote: post #48
inlined wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "I can't be bad as long as someone, somewhere, is worse" argument is a classic excuse to get out of ever having to improve anything. Recently learned the awesome names for this fallacy. "Tu quoque"[1] is the general name. Whataboutism[2] is the awesome term for its use in soviet propeganda. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I don't think I was committing a logical fallacy -- I took exception to the article author's attempt at establishing alleged certainty, especially using relativistic terms. In any case, based on your mention of learning new fallacy names, you'll probably like this site: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

I vouched for this comment as I didn't see anything particularly egregious: looks like the included URI triggers some automatic down-voting behavior (perhaps to encourage better discourse rather than calling out fallacies?) Regardless, it's probably not worth including that link in the future :)

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#72

Post by mirimir »

bad_user wrote: post #45
vog wrote: post #39

The real name discussion is as old as the Usenet, maybe even older. I find it strange to see it re-appearing again and again every few years for almost decades. Back then, the consensus was roughly: 1. If a community accepts pseudonyms, it is polite to use either your realname or an obvious pseudonym. 2. If a community places high value on realnames, either use your realname or a realname-sounding (i.e. non-obvious)…

The problem was that back then you didn't have service providers with lock-in on a market, like today's Facebook and the Internet was only a thing for techies, whereas nowadays more than half of the world's population has access to the Internet. Can you just not use Facebook? There are obviously only 3 choices: (1) not use it, but then you won't have an account where all of your friends are; (2) use it with your real…

There's a fourth option: use Facebook with your real name, and separately with fake name(s). For the real-name account, carefully manage "friends" to avoid problems with family, friends, coworkers, etc. Make sure that there's no leakage between your real-name account and fake-name accounts, or among fake-name accounts. Practice good compartmentalization OpSec.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#73

Post by Swizec »

vog wrote: post #39

The real name discussion is as old as the Usenet, maybe even older. I find it strange to see it re-appearing again and again every few years for almost decades. Back then, the consensus was roughly: 1. If a community accepts pseudonyms, it is polite to use either your realname or an obvious pseudonym. 2. If a community places high value on realnames, either use your realname or a realname-sounding (i.e. non-obvious)…

Same rules apply as always: don't share your real name and address online outside very very small and personable communities.

People often ask me why i still haven't changed my name to Swizec legally. This is why.

You never know who out of the thousands of people you interact with online could get crazy ideas. With a pseudonym they can still identify you and know who you are, but they can't call your bank and do something silly.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#74

Post by dasboth »

Inconel wrote: post #23
blauditore wrote: post #7

I think it largely depends on the specific community and people in it. While some try to use online anonymity as an outlet to say and do things they wouldn't dare on Facebook or IRL, others seem to want a reality-like reputation around their username/account. A large portion is probably caused simply by community rules; just see /b/ and HN... And to be fair, I've hardly ever seen serious insults on Facebook, but been…

>I've hardly ever seen serious insults on Facebook Every once in a while curiosity and boredom get the better of me and I visit ESPN or some other mainstream news site that uses FB profiles for the comments section and I almost always walk away shocked at the kind of comments people are willing to post while directly linking to their real name and profile, often containing their place of employment. Respectfully, if…

I've seen similar and can't help but wonder if at least some of those people don't realise that's happening. Maybe they see the "login with Facebook" as a convenience without knowing their names, jobs etc. will be visible. The rest probably just don't care.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#75

Post by mjolk »

grzm wrote: post #71
mjolk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I was committing a logical fallacy -- I took exception to the article author's attempt at establishing alleged certainty, especially using relativistic terms. In any case, based on your mention of learning new fallacy names, you'll probably like this site: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

I vouched for this comment as I didn't see anything particularly egregious: looks like the included URI triggers some automatic down-voting behavior (perhaps to encourage better discourse rather than calling out fallacies?) Regardless, it's probably not worth including that link in the future :)

Oh, sorry, didn't even think of that. Thank you for vouching for it.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#76

Post by draugadrotten »

janwillemb wrote: post #56

My real name doesn't uniquely identify me, because there are more people in the world with the same name. According to some web searching, I have already died a long time ago, I am a technical illustrator, I collect model trains, etc. So a "real name" could be compromising even if totally unjust

I am in the opposite situation. My real name is so rare that it uniquely identifies me globally, as far as I know. I have angered a religious group which is known for intimidation and even physical threats to critics. This makes me very uncomfortable in using sites that demands "real names". I would never sign up for Facebook, for example.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#77

Post by bleair »

I'm biased by empirical data - e.g. look at youtube comments (anonymous) vs. amazon reviews (real identity owned by amazon).

Human nature demonstrates that a fraction of people really like to put down / bully / see others suffering because they are personally unhappy (e.g. the shock talk shows). Anonymity allows bullying behavior with no consequence.

More simply, why do people spend time and energy online "trolling" others. Clearly a sizable portion of people like trolling others, though I don't personally see why.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#78

Post by 7Z7 »

mjolk wrote: post #64
7Z7 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's not the argument here. It's stating that it's tiring that the US is always singled out as if it's somehow _specifically_ bad. And that isn't the case in the original quote. The US isn't listed as specifically bad, it is included as a member of a list where the author contends mistreatment of some groups is common: "In societies including the US where violence.." Nothing special or notably different there. Add…

> And that isn't the case in the original quote. The US isn't listed as specifically bad, it is included as a member of a list where the author contends mistreatment of some groups is common: I contend that the US doesn't belong in that list, and also that a generalization with a single enumeration is almost comical to defend as not attempting to identify as a specific case. e.g. "Software pirates, including 7Z7, oft…

>I contend that the US doesn't belong in that list..

I'm not engaging with that, as I said "the author contends".

However, the single enumeration stands as it is addressing a US audience. It isn't a special case on the list, it is a special case to that audience.

>"Software pirates, including 7Z7, often..."

If the article that included the above sentence was addressing an audience of people to whom I was particularly special (ie. the 7Z7 Fan Club), then this is completely appropriate, even if I am not a particularly rabid example amongst other software pirates.

>Except that the UK and the US is quite good about these things..

The point then, is that despite patting ourselves on the back, we are not yet as good as we could be, nor as good as we apparently think we are - despite there being worse examples in the world.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#79

Post by durzagott »

mirimir wrote: post #72
bad_user wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem was that back then you didn't have service providers with lock-in on a market, like today's Facebook and the Internet was only a thing for techies, whereas nowadays more than half of the world's population has access to the Internet. Can you just not use Facebook? There are obviously only 3 choices: (1) not use it, but then you won't have an account where all of your friends are; (2) use it with your real…

There's a fourth option: use Facebook with your real name, and separately with fake name(s). For the real-name account, carefully manage "friends" to avoid problems with family, friends, coworkers, etc. Make sure that there's no leakage between your real-name account and fake-name accounts, or among fake-name accounts. Practice good compartmentalization OpSec.

But wouldn't your fake profile start showing up in 'People you may know' section? I've heard Facebook uses IP adresses to link accounts.

So suddenly you have to explain to your real friends/family/coworkers why you have a fake account.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#80

Post by dx034 »

Fnoord wrote: post #22
wfunction wrote: post #4

Thing is, if I had to guess, I would say Facebook doesn't attempt to make you use your real name to make the community better in the first place. That's almost certainly just its pretext for everyone who's willing to fall for it. Most likely, it does that to make sure it can identify you globally and uniquely for commercial/advertising purposes. Think about how much more valuable your online identity is if you go sol…

> I would say Facebook doesn't attempt to make you use your real name to make the community better in the first place. They're not even allowed to enforce it in Germany [1]: "Facebook may not prevent its users from using fake names, a German privacy watchdog said on Tuesday, in the latest privacy setback for the U.S. company in Europe." Note that said authority is part of the government (unlike, say, EFF). [1] http:/…

Facebook won't care. Worst case, they'll get a fine of Similar to the right of getting all your data in the EU. They stopped answering requests and the government representative in Ireland (who is responsible) also stopped replying to emails. They'll give you all your data if you sue them, otherwise they just ignore the laws. With Dublin on their side, there's little the EU can do.
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