Live data from Hacker News

Neurodiversity

edge.org

71–77 of 77 posts

Re: Neurodiversity

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are people uncomfortable with this? While it's not important enough for genetic engineering on it's own, I'd probably edit my children to be darker. Having spent a few days on the beach in Thailand, the genetic inferiority of my own fair skin is quite visible and painful.

What does it have with skin color? Just limit the sun for two or three days until you tan, no sunburns after that. It's not like Thais are black. Compare: https://pixabay.com/p-199674/?no_redirect https://tonycavanagh.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/5005.jpg Hardly a big difference. For genetic modification, the best solution is to increase range of tanning rather than changing the constant. It's already possible to get…

> until you tan

Not all of us have your superpower :) I've managed to tan 1/32 of my summers.

Re: Neurodiversity

#72
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is there is autism like (maybe) Einstein or Tesla and then there is autism where the child can't communicate or adapt to any form of human social interaction or contact. The former is neurodiversity, the latter a debilitating disease. These are not the same thing and need different terms.

Is there any evidence that they have different underlying causes or are otherwise fundamentally distinct rather than one simply being an extreme case of the other? (Honest question; I'm not familiar with the literature here.) Or, even if they were in some sense fundamentally the same, is your argument that their effects are so practically different that they ought to be called by distinct names anyway?

Asperger's used to be classified separately but is now considered part of the autism spectrum. That said, I don't think this was done primarily because of a consensus over there being just one 'fundamental type' of autism.

As I understand it, there isn't even a consensus on any theory of what autism fundamentally is. Some theories try to explain the social issues as a lack of Theory Of mind, but these theories don't cover the many other symptoms typical of autism. One more recent theory ('Intense Worlds') does present a 'fundamental' explanation for all/most symptoms, but AFAIK it's not well-accepted or supported by evidence (yet), and the fact that it explains so much is also considered a drawback (too vague / overfitting / whatever the term is).

> Or, even if they were in some sense fundamentally the same, is your argument that their effects are so practically different that they ought to be called by distinct names anyway?

I've noticed that there seems to be a movement in treatment approach that focuses on treating individual symptoms without focusing too much on the overarching 'labels'. In my experience it's been a very nice, down to earth approach, and it strikes me as more measurable too. This approach strikes me as particularly useful for autism because there's so much variation between different autists and the particular symptoms they exhibit.

Re: Neurodiversity

#73
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those books exist as a method for billing insurance. The DSM only recently (1983) stopped considering homosexuality a diagnosis. As a result we're hearing the phrase "somewhere on the spectrum" for any number of behaviors we don't see fitting the norm, and the reality of autism is not this "beautiful mind" scenario for many, but instead a crippling illness like the AP mentions. They are definitely not the same thing…

As someone who falls in the "Beautiful Mind" end of the spectrum I find it insulting and abhorrent that people would do anything OTHER than cure us if they could. Beneath superficial success and contribution, my life is a nonstop Munchian scream. I find it less insulting when people say everyone on the spectrum should be exterminated, than when people say some of us should be allowed to continue existing because our…

On the other hand, I've met high-functioning autists that feel offended at the idea that people want to cure them. My cousin is on the "very crippled side" of the spectrum, so I'd give anything for a cure. So I guess if the person can understand the concept, it should be their own call.

Re: Neurodiversity

#74
It can be a-la-cart. We'll find ways to make it possible to edit our genomes so that we can have:

* dark skin when we want it (for practical reasons or style)

* stripey zebra skin (just for this week, it's a novelty)

* genetic tattoos (program your skin to make tattoos of your design)

* cuttlefish skin, glowing jellyfish skin (for parties)

* change eye/hair color to match our clothes when going out

* change mental processing style for exams, getting jobs, learning languages (this week I'm autistic)

Re: Neurodiversity

#75
post #30

I think we will start to limit our capability for diversity soon. Population control, anti-aging and direct genetic control will limit the opportunities for change. A case of our short term culture conflicting with our long term biology. It's a pity because we will be less likely to ever become something we can't already imagine.

The idea that we will soon control everything seems akin to other inaccurate prognostications.

The combinatoric explosion of interactions between new "control technologies" alone will introduce many new, unforeseen variables.

The world will still be uncontrollable in new unforeseen ways.

Re: Neurodiversity

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you know? The only way to really compare two lives would be to live them both.

I'm completely fucking isolated. Like, a million miles away. Someone at work invites me to a party. I go, I have fun. I never get invited again. New person gets hired, pattern repeats. Reliable as a clock. My wife? I picked her up using techniques from the seduction community, which I studied like a science and practiced for over a year. I did that because I was tired of being a virgin, now I hate this relationship a…

That sounds really awful. You've followed the recipe, gotten the killer career, the fat stacks, and the hot wife, and there you are, still miserable.

Please try your best not to read this as being condescending - I have a weakness for making valiant, often vain attempts at reaching out to and helping people who are miserable, because I've been there myself.

There's good news, and bad news.

The bad news is that the things that are supposed to make us happy are cultural constructs, illusions and soporifics that for whatever reason, fail completely to bring any happiness or meaning to the lives of people like you and me. We're born, we try feverishly and frantically to grab onto the happiness and meaning that seem to come so easily to others, and when we die it's a stillbirth - we've never really lived.

The good news (which may also sound kind of bad, depending on how you feel about certain things), is that humans throughout history have run up against this, and some of them have sat down and tried to solve the problem. Like all the best solutions, theirs were counter-intuitive, paradoxical to the ignorant, and easily mocked by those who had no need for them. These were of course the philosophers, mystics, and many of those who we think of today as religious figures. What they discovered was essentially the technology of human happiness.

I should stop to point out here that I'm not suggesting that you can fix your ASD stuff. What I am suggesting that it's not the proximate cause of your unhappiness. Sure, being excluded and lonely may be the result of your condition, but lots of people have that experience for other reasons and go on to lead happy lives. It's your reaction to your situation that's causing you pain.

I don't want to be prescriptive about where to start, but as intellectually appealing as philosophy might be, the bullshit to insight ratio is extremely high compared to what people generally refer to as spirituality or religion. Approaching the technology of happiness through Plato is a bit like trying to learn how to program by reading Turing's papers on computing - everything you need is theoretically there, but it's going to require a herculean effort before you can make software. It's better to revisit it once you have something that works in your life.

I'm not saying you have to believe in god, jesus, or magic. Some religious traditions leave these out entirely - for example in Buddhism offers an accessible path involving reincarnation, Bodhisattvas (saints), and miracles, and an alternative one in the Zen and Theravada traditions in which these things are taken as symbols rather than the signified. Buddhism is, to the best of my knowledge, the only religion in which this bifurcation is explicitly acknowledged, although some Christian and Muslim Neoplatonists constructed similar arguments that never became part of the broader doctrine.

Another commenter has suggested psychedelics. I've had earth shattering spiritual experiences on them, and I've also had less intense but much clearer and more lasting ones in the more traditional pursuit of understanding. YMMV.

Finally, if by some (figurative) miracle you've made it this far, it's important to note that learning about this stuff does nothing. You have to practice it, engage in it, and be changed by it. This is deeply fucking uncomfortable process, and it takes time. Best of luck.

Re: Neurodiversity

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely fucking isolated. Like, a million miles away. Someone at work invites me to a party. I go, I have fun. I never get invited again. New person gets hired, pattern repeats. Reliable as a clock. My wife? I picked her up using techniques from the seduction community, which I studied like a science and practiced for over a year. I did that because I was tired of being a virgin, now I hate this relationship a…

The adage 'birds of a feather flock together' is a true one. Our ability to communicate with each other relies most strongly on shared experience esp. with regard to normative behavior, thoughts. I would not advise you to act as neurotypical but to seek out your own kind. That might not be easily found in collected pools of humans but to take a leaf out of the Major's book: 'The net is vast and infinite.' How many of…

Did they permaban you?
Post reply on HN