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US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

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Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#71

Post by lern_too_spel »

Natsu wrote: post #11
threeseed wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody said Russia rigged the election. The issue was the attempts to influence the election which Russia has a long, documented history of doing so. And the US had an obligation to respond which they did with minimal effect. So claiming all of this was about propaganda really makes no sense given the facts on the ground. And please remember why Russia's relations with almost all of the world deteriorated in the firs…

> Nobody said Russia rigged the election. Nobody sensible said that, but I've seen more than a few comments along those lines on various sites, enough to believe that general sentiment is commonplace. As for Comey, I'd say he let her off easy. Take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC1Mc6-RDyQ Then look at the PDF attached here of an email between Colin Powell and Hillary Clinton and ask whether this lo…

How did Comey let her off easy if she didn't break any laws?

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#72

Post by dgudkov »

ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #35
knz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is too sinple. Russia is actively pushing an agenda as well - the invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea were not a response to US/NATO aggression. A new cold war has also been pushed domestically for the political benefit of Putin et al. If Trump had done basic things like released his tax returns (to show no massive conflict of interest with Russian loans etc) or stopped praising Putin on a regular basis…

The invasion of Crimea was a direct response to US/NATO aggression. 1) The US helped plot to overthrow the Ukranian government in 2014. 2) Russia was not keen on NATO pushing for Ukraine to become a member, which would literally put the Russians major warm naval port under NATO hands. 3) Crimea has been a part of Russia for centuries, the only reason Crimea became a part of Ukraine after the breakup of the Soviet Uni…

The Crimean invasion had many reasons. First, it is an attempt to keep Ukraine as a Russian vassal state. Ukraine is essential for Russia to rebuild its empire and restore its power. Ukraine served as a big agricultural and industrial resource for Russia for long time. Also many prominent Ukrainians made significant input into building the tzar Russian empire and later, the USSR.

In order to keep Ukraine in its orbit, Russia systematically undermined Ukrainian government and security using corruption (which was extremely effective). However, when a significant number of Ukrainians became more and more convinced with democracy (and here the strong political and cultural Western influence is apparent, nothing secret about it) they finally protested against corrupted politics provided by then-president Yanukovich supported (and controlled) by V.Putin.

With the occupation of Crimea and Donbass (Eastern Ukraine), Russia tries to keep influencing Ukraine in a military way, since the old way through corruption is no longer possible. It also played well internally and ensured electoral support for Putin as Russia economy started declining following the fall of oil prices. The occupation also intentionally demonstrated that the existing international law has no power it claims to have which implies that the global security system should be redesigned.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#73

Post by grzm »

67726e wrote: post #68
grzm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colin Powell just prior to the first Iraq war, getting up in front of the UN I think you mean second, don't you? What's commonly referred to as the First Iraq War would be following the invasion of Kuwait in 1990. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War

In the US at least, it's usually referred to as the Gulf War. While I've never personally heard the "first" Gulf War referred to as the first Iraq War I've heard of the current conflict called the second Gulf War. Is that not the norm?

Sure, the Wikipedia entry lists a number of different names:

The war is also known under other names, such as the Persian Gulf War, First Gulf War, Gulf War I, Kuwait War, First Iraq War, or Iraq War before the term "Iraq War" became identified instead with the 2003 Iraq War

The point is the 2003 coalition invasion isn't referred to as the First Iraq War; if using that term, it's commonly understood to mean the events of 1991. I could have phrased it better as "What's commonly referred to by the first Iraq War would be following the invasion of Kuwait in 1990."

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#74

Post by jansenv »

lngnmn wrote: post #53

It is ridiculous to think that the Russkies planed and executed these hacks as a deliberate operation with a clear objective to derail the election or whatever it might me. Some guys routinely spreading primitive phishing spam got lucky and got a password or two and gained the access to emails. Just this. No super spy hacking operations. It does not even work that way - chance is the main factor. How the emails turne…

Plus it seems clear that many of the leaks were leaks, not hacks. RIP Seth Rich

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#75

Post by normaljoe »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #5
gtirloni wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the conclusion anyone working in the security/network area was bound to arrive at. It's really interesting FBI/DHS would make those claims publicly when the chance of having any hard evidence of that would be minimal. But they still did it. Why?

To me the ongoing 'Russia rigged elections' smells like propaganda from the other side. And maybe russia did release the DNC emails, but Assange said that wasn't the case and I feel he's more likely to be telling the truth than state players. And even if they did release these emails it's hardly rigging an election. Comneys email announcement at the 11th hour about reopening email investigation was probably a decidin…

> but Assange said that wasn't the case and I feel he's more likely to be telling the truth than state players.

Why? He already has a distain against the US and Clinton. He has no more reason to tell the truth the the state players do.

> Comneys email announcement at the 11th hour about reopening email investigation was probably a deciding variable and that was hardly Russian lead.

This I completely agree with. I think the DNC leaks may have impacted a hundredth of a percent, but Comney contributed in a tenth of a precent. Why would he not intervene? He was almost certainly aware that he would have been job hunting shortly after a Clinton win. He already has shown us his true nature in the whole Apple phone mess which really was more a litmus test then trying to gather real intelligence.

Still at the same time if indeed we had foreign actors engaged in election manipulation that is something we, nor any nation, should not tolerate. And yes we should also look inward as I am fairly certain that we have been guilty of this in the past.

Maybe, although I doubt this is enough, we and others can quit this ongoing manipulation. The US has proved it backfires multiple times in the middle east. Other nations can hopefully learn from our mistakes. I almost hate to bring it up, but.. "Why can't we all just get along". The answer is simple in that folks want to keep jobs and power.

> I'm no expert and just wonder why countries can put more effort to looking after their own populations needs.

If they did then that reduces the fear of those against us. That fear seems to be the driving force of politics in 2016 globally.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#76

Post by ordu »

natch wrote: post #55

I don't know how much of the HN community is old enough to remember Colin Powell just prior to the first Iraq war, getting up in front of the UN and the whole world for that matter, and asserting that there was ironclad proof that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (which we came to know as WMD). Different parts of the government had the same talking points and it was all presented as irrefutable facts. But the evi…

I'm more intrigued by the goals behind all of this public discoveries. Public proof of Iraq having chemical weapons had clear goals, government needed to justify his upcoming war actions. But what precisely it trying to justify now? Or it has some more obscure plan?

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#77

Post by Natsu »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #71
Natsu wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody said Russia rigged the election. Nobody sensible said that, but I've seen more than a few comments along those lines on various sites, enough to believe that general sentiment is commonplace. As for Comey, I'd say he let her off easy. Take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC1Mc6-RDyQ Then look at the PDF attached here of an email between Colin Powell and Hillary Clinton and ask whether this lo…

How did Comey let her off easy if she didn't break any laws?

Comey claimed not to have charged Clinton because there was a lack of intent. Gowdy is calling him on that, saying that this makes zero sense and going over all the ways they have to prove intent. His point at the end about "negligence" underscores the fact that the entire line of reasoning is nonsensical: intentional negligence is a contradiction in terms. That which is intentional cannot be negligent and vice versa. The law in question is against negligence (which does not require any intent whatsoever).

Just to underscore that, I just linked to a document where Colin Powell describes in detail how they're subverting the law: https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/30324

"However, there is a real danger. If it is public that you have a BlackBerry and it [is] government and you are using it, government or not, to do business, it may become an official record and be subject to the law. Reading about the President's BB rules this morning, it sounds like it won't be as useful as it used to be. Be very careful. I got around it all by not saying much and not using systems that captured the data."

I don't think it's reasonable to let our politicians get away with this. Inasmuch as people are worried about Russian influence, it seems strange to me that there's no worry about the very leaders to jeopardize our OPSEC with their hubris. Here is Colin Powell, again, saying things that should make HN readers cringe:

"Now, the real issue had to do with PDAs, as we called them a few years ago before BlackBerry became a noun. And the issue was DS would not allow them into the secure spaces, especially up your way. When I asked why not they gave me all kinds of nonsense about how they gave out signals that could be read by spies, etc. Same reason they tried to keep mobile phones out of the suite. I had numerous meetings with them. We even opened one up for them to try to explain to me why it was more dangerous than say, a remote control for one of the many tvs in the suite. Or something embedded in my shoe heel. They never satisfied me and NSA/CIA wouldn't back off. So, we just went about our business and stopped asking. I had an ancient version of a PDA and used it. In general, the suite was so sealed that it is hard to get signals in or out wirelessly."

If the law is so toothless that high ranking people of either party (Powell is a Republican) can deliberately subvert them, then we're always going to be at the mercy of every country with half-decent spies. This is a problem in its own right, independent from whatever partisan considerations we have here.

===

Note: The square brackets in the quote are me fixing typos in the original.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#78

Post by lern_too_spel »

Natsu wrote: post #77
lern_too_spel wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did Comey let her off easy if she didn't break any laws?

Comey claimed not to have charged Clinton because there was a lack of intent. Gowdy is calling him on that, saying that this makes zero sense and going over all the ways they have to prove intent. His point at the end about "negligence" underscores the fact that the entire line of reasoning is nonsensical: intentional negligence is a contradiction in terms. That which is intentional cannot be negligent and vice versa…

You don't understand what intent means as it relates to the law. The particular law you are referring to is the Espionage Act. The case law (in particular, Gorin v. United States) establishes a bright line of scienter for application of this law, highlighting the text that says the defendant must have "intent or reason to believe that the information to be obtained is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation" in order to be in violation of the law. Intending to use a private email server with a Blackberry is not enough. She must intend to circumvent the security of the email system in order to harm the United States or help a foreign nation.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#79

Post by natch »

grzm wrote: post #67
natch wrote: post #55

I don't know how much of the HN community is old enough to remember Colin Powell just prior to the first Iraq war, getting up in front of the UN and the whole world for that matter, and asserting that there was ironclad proof that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (which we came to know as WMD). Different parts of the government had the same talking points and it was all presented as irrefutable facts. But the evi…

Colin Powell just prior to the first Iraq war, getting up in front of the UN I think you mean second, don't you? What's commonly referred to as the First Iraq War would be following the invasion of Kuwait in 1990. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War

Yes, you're right.

Re: US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Malware

#80

Post by IvarTheHomeless »

vectorwhat wrote: post #49
knz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you European by chance? If so, don't worry, your country also likely has a long history of meddling on local affairs either through colonialism or parts of the cold war, especially if you are British! Yes, the US has meddled in international affairs but let's not pretend that US is unique in doing so or that Russia is some benign country that has no history of actively working against the interests of Europe/US/N…

First there are many countries in Western Europe with no significant colonial history. Greece for example. Italy's colonial history is insignificant. As to being glad that we grew up in Western Europe during the cold war, I have an Albanian friend who is now a professor of economics in the USA. He said that, although living in communism as an adult (Albania had the worst communist, btw) would have sucked, he wouldn't…

Libya and Ethiopia would like a word with you.
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