Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#71

Post by sharemywin » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

sboselli wrote: post #64

lj3 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of a Dylan Moran joke: "Arnold Schwarzenegger is the governor of California. There's a perfectly ordinary English sentence. How did that happen!? ... He went over to the heavy thing, and lifted it, and put it back down and didn't move it anywhere. And then he did it again, hundreds of times, and he said to people who stopped to observe this aberrant behaviour, "Look how good I am at lifting the heavy…

This is nonsense. Are you or anyone you know a completely one-dimensional person? Do you have the capacity to learn just one (and no more) topic? Stop acting like people can't learn or have multiple passions/knowledge domains. Please, there's absolutely nothing special or unattainable about politicians. If anything, they are the people who are most trained, set in their ways and corrupted in the most corrupted system…

I don't know capitalism seems pretty corrupting. I doubt people grow-up thinking gee I wish I could work for a company that hides research for years that my company produces a product that kills people and spends billions researching how to make it more addictive. or commit the largest ponzi scheme or pollute the environment or push drugs that have marginal benefit to people, etc.

Also, for every bribee in politics there's a briber as well.

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#72

Post by balabaster » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

edblarney wrote: post #20

balabaster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but he's a bit of a paradox in this respect because he clearly values his own opinion over everyone else. Given some of the positions he's filled, with some of the personalities he's chosen, to pick a team that's clearly liberal and forward thinking team in this aspect vs. (anecdotally, I haven't read the actual evidence supporting this) the very staunch flat earth, climate denial, intelligent design type conser…

"in this respect because he clearly values his own opinion over everyone else." Musk or Trump? :) Musk might be liberal on some kind of social issues, but he's more of a libertarian than anything, he's not remotely some kind of 'bernie' guy. Musk told his wife, as they were having their 'first dance at the wedding' - that 'he's the alpha' in the relationship. Does that sound progressive? Or how about dumping his wife…

> And you do realize it was Father David LeMaitre - a Catholic Priest and Physicist, who conceived of the 'big bang'?

Actually, I was not aware of this, that's really actually quite interesting. Probably the most interesting thing in your dismissal of my flippant use of 2 words :D

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#73

Post by nostrademons » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

edblarney wrote: post #53

abakker wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence that Musk has not "the faintest grasp of economics"? I'm not sure that you can make that claim about anyone who has a company that they created that is worth >$1bn. Also, as long as people don't reject Flat-earth, climate-denial, or intelligent design, they are condoning those things. The Republican party have been masters of allowing these beliefs to come along for the ride for years. 2 of them seem to be r…

Basically nobody believes in 'Flat Earth' it's ridiculous that you'd put that in there. And it's surprising how many CEO's in tech don't have a grasp of economics. Elon doesn't know what the Fed's QE program does or what it means. Watch investors speak about what they think of the future, and of business, then watch Elon, Zuck etc. speak. There's a marked difference. The investors are economically literate, and usual…

You're describing the difference between macroeconomics and microeconomics. Pretty much every successful entrepreneur I know has a very solid grasp of microeconomics, oftentimes much more solid than most economists or financiers. They don't always have a detailed understanding of macroeconomics, and many of them don't need one to run their businesses.

When you can steal market share from existing incumbents, oftentimes with a 10x better product value proposition, then currency, interest rates, and consumer credit are rounding error. They don't matter - you have a potential market that is many times greater than the current size of your company, so you just convince your competitors' customers to switch to you and you get growth even if the economy as a whole is contracting. But on a macro-level, this is zero-sum, because your gain is your competitor's loss. On a macro-level, the only things that lead to everyone's gain are improvements in productivity and better use of unemployed resources.

Now, when it comes to the original thread subject, this is very relevant: it's worrisome that Trump seems to be treating the U.S. economy as a whole the way you would treat a business, and is applying microeconomics tools in a situation subject to macroeconomics. But it's not true that Elon, Zuck, etc. don't understand economics; rather, they understand economics, but the part of it that is relevant to their daily lives is different from the part that pundits and economists care about.

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#74

Post by audleman » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:49 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #39

zzzeek wrote: post #19

Jeff Bezos is also on this "advisory team" and he's close to a mortal enemy of Trump. I predict this is no more than a sunshine squad for PR reasons. Trump met with Al Gore for many hours as well, then nominated the most ardent climate change denier as head of the EPA the next day. As long as that kind of thing doesn't change (e.g. Trump literally comes out and says, "OK, I was wrong, I finally believe in climate cha…

While I'm not a Trump fan and don't disagree with a ton of what you say here, people need to stop with this intelligence briefings stuff. He said he doesn't need to dedicate time to have people tell him the exact same thing everyday, but to let him know when things change. If anything, that's an efficiency gain that a site full of programmers and avid "meetings are the devil" folks should appreciate. Every time that…

> He said he doesn't need to dedicate time to have people tell him the exact same thing everyday

I don't believe that every president before Trump simply put up with redundant meetings. This is the busiest job in the world, presidents are intelligent people, somebody would have put an end to daily security briefings if they weren't useful before now.

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#75

Post by drewrv » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:52 PM UTC

edblarney wrote: post #20

balabaster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but he's a bit of a paradox in this respect because he clearly values his own opinion over everyone else. Given some of the positions he's filled, with some of the personalities he's chosen, to pick a team that's clearly liberal and forward thinking team in this aspect vs. (anecdotally, I haven't read the actual evidence supporting this) the very staunch flat earth, climate denial, intelligent design type conser…

"in this respect because he clearly values his own opinion over everyone else." Musk or Trump? :) Musk might be liberal on some kind of social issues, but he's more of a libertarian than anything, he's not remotely some kind of 'bernie' guy. Musk told his wife, as they were having their 'first dance at the wedding' - that 'he's the alpha' in the relationship. Does that sound progressive? Or how about dumping his wife…

It's hard to pin Musk down as a libertarian when his companies rely on fat government subsidies and contracts. There probably isn't a real label for someone like him other than pragmatist or opportunist.

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#76

Post by drewrv » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:54 PM UTC

VLM wrote: post #28

balabaster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but he's a bit of a paradox in this respect because he clearly values his own opinion over everyone else. Given some of the positions he's filled, with some of the personalities he's chosen, to pick a team that's clearly liberal and forward thinking team in this aspect vs. (anecdotally, I haven't read the actual evidence supporting this) the very staunch flat earth, climate denial, intelligent design type conser…

He's an old real estate hand, they're used to more diversity than will ever be found in SV/Tech or stereotypical business in general. Real estate is the art of compromise between extremely diverse people/groups. I'd say there's probably more diversity working in real estate than most any other large industry. Today you're meeting with some commie union leader, tomorrow a bank prez, next week you're buying off some en…

> they're used to more diversity than will ever be found in SV/Tech or stereotypical business in general

He literally started his career by refusing to rent to black people. Richard Nixon's justice department went after him for it!

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#77

Post by drewrv » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

nashashmi wrote: post #23

balabaster wrote: post #5

Did not see that coming... The cynic in me says this is entirely about PR, but if it's not, this is a suprisingly positive step in the right direction. I'm not sure what to make of it and wonder what will come of it.

I take this as a sign that politics are out, and simple business administration is in. Of course real cynics will yell too much power is being given to business people.

The thing is, the government is not a business. Even if the motives of the Exon CEO were pure, why should I think he'd make a good diplomat. I wouldn't want an astronaut performing surgery.

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#78

Post by drewrv » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #8

serg_chernata wrote: post #2

Honest question, what does this mean for all the talk of Silicon Valley doom and gloom under Trump's presidency? Was all that just fear mongering? How do we understand this move?

The doom and gloom was of course a lot of fear mongering (the Hitler comparisons grow old very quickly). Trump talked so little of policy during the campaign we really have no idea what he is going to do. That in of itself is also scary because it is an unknown. While he was not my pick for POTUS, I'm holding a wait and see attitude. Historically Trump's public views were liberal, and he leaned democrat so we'll see…

> the Hitler comparisons grow old very quickly

I agree in general. But when Auschwitz survivors make the Hitler comparison up we should listen. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-the-age-of-trump-...

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#79

Post by sharemywin » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 6:45 PM UTC

sharemywin wrote: post #71

sboselli wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. Are you or anyone you know a completely one-dimensional person? Do you have the capacity to learn just one (and no more) topic? Stop acting like people can't learn or have multiple passions/knowledge domains. Please, there's absolutely nothing special or unattainable about politicians. If anything, they are the people who are most trained, set in their ways and corrupted in the most corrupted system…

I don't know capitalism seems pretty corrupting. I doubt people grow-up thinking gee I wish I could work for a company that hides research for years that my company produces a product that kills people and spends billions researching how to make it more addictive. or commit the largest ponzi scheme or pollute the environment or push drugs that have marginal benefit to people, etc. Also, for every bribee in politics t…

not sure why I'm being down voted.

corruption - dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power.

CEOs and other decision makers of companies certainly have power. Several of them have hid the side effects of their products to continue making money.

I would call that being corrupt.

Re: Trump Names Elon Musk, Uber CEO to Advisory Team – TheHill

#80

Post by lj3 » Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

sharemywin wrote: post #79

sharemywin wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know capitalism seems pretty corrupting. I doubt people grow-up thinking gee I wish I could work for a company that hides research for years that my company produces a product that kills people and spends billions researching how to make it more addictive. or commit the largest ponzi scheme or pollute the environment or push drugs that have marginal benefit to people, etc. Also, for every bribee in politics t…

not sure why I'm being down voted. corruption - dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power. CEOs and other decision makers of companies certainly have power. Several of them have hid the side effects of their products to continue making money. I would call that being corrupt.

You're being downvoted because capitalism has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But, because I feel like tilting at windmills, I'll say this: there's nothing inherently corrupting about capitalism. Corruption is inherent to human nature and exists in socialism, communism and every other form of government ever invented.

The reason for this is humans naturally sort themselves into hierarchies and people will always strive to better their position in those hierarchies. With better position comes better chance at survival for you and future generations of you.

Money helps in the climb up the hierarchy, but it's not sufficient in most cases. Most climbs require power. Money can sometimes buy power, but it's not nearly as effective as trading favors, forging political alliances and manipulating people through blackmail.

Money influences power outside of capitalist systems as well. CGP Grey's video 'Rules for Rulers'[0] does a great job of illustrating why.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs