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Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

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Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#71

Post by theptip »

nickjj wrote: post #67

I think you need a complete change in mindset, because you're just setting yourself up for failure. You shouldn't need to develop a habit like reading or exercise. If you don't truly want to do these things then you'll stick to your systematic habit for a few days and it'll fizzle out, then it's back to the drawing board. I've been walking/jogging a few miles a day for the last 5 years or so. Now it's part of my life…

I think this fundamentally misses an important part of human nature -- we can want things in the abstract (be more healthy, be more well-read, etc.) but not actually "straight up enjoy" them.

There are techniques for training yourself to think differently about tasks though; Tony Robbins talks a lot about how to train yourself to have the positive associations that you choose, instead of the ones that your environment and upbringing bestowed on you[1]. Some of that reads a bit cultish but I think there's some good stuff in there.

[1]: https://www.amazon.com/Unlimited-Power-Science-Personal-Achi...

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#72

Post by ktRolster »

d23 wrote: post #49
kstenerud wrote: post #26

1. Build a routine. Set a specific, repeating time when you will do the thing in your calendar. Keep that slot clear, ALWAYS. Never let something interrupt this task. 2. Learn to say no. If someone wants you to do something else during this time slot, say no, and tell them why. 3. Never break the routine. Breaking it once makes it MUCH easier to break the next scheduled time. If you do break it, feel bad about it and…

As someone who got into a regular exercise habit a year ago that has progressively gotten more intense, I disagree with a few of your points. Actually, I guess it's mostly the first 3: > 1. Build a routine. Set a specific, repeating time when you will do the thing in your calendar. Keep that slot clear, ALWAYS. Never let something interrupt this task. > 2. Learn to say no. If someone wants you to do something else du…

I finally built up the will to exercise by forcing myself to do only something every day. Even if it was walk out the door the walk back in, as long as it was something.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#73

Post by dpandey »

kstenerud wrote: post #26

1. Build a routine. Set a specific, repeating time when you will do the thing in your calendar. Keep that slot clear, ALWAYS. Never let something interrupt this task. 2. Learn to say no. If someone wants you to do something else during this time slot, say no, and tell them why. 3. Never break the routine. Breaking it once makes it MUCH easier to break the next scheduled time. If you do break it, feel bad about it and…

1. Agree. Setting a time-slot aside means that you don't have to make that decision everyday. Not having to make a decision is very helpful in forming a habit.

2. Agree. Some discipline in sticking is very helpful in the beginning. Over time, people realize you aren't to be bothered at a certain time, or even that you don't spontaneously change your plans if you have certain specific activities planned that hour ( for me, it's biking).

3. Strongly Disagree. Being uncomfortable with a break in routine leads to guilt, sense of failure, and premature abandonment of your goal. It's really important to curtail falling off, but comfort with occasional breaks is really important.

4. This only works if you have a long term coach/partner. Friends are usually unlikely to be as determined as you to do this particular thing. And if you start together with a friend and they fall off, it legitimizes the failure a little and tempts you to fall off too. I'd say being accountable to yourself (marking lines on a whiteboard) might be more effective.

5. Strongly agree. ONLY one thing at a time.

6. Agree

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#75

Post by dpandey »

nickjj wrote: post #67

I think you need a complete change in mindset, because you're just setting yourself up for failure. You shouldn't need to develop a habit like reading or exercise. If you don't truly want to do these things then you'll stick to your systematic habit for a few days and it'll fizzle out, then it's back to the drawing board. I've been walking/jogging a few miles a day for the last 5 years or so. Now it's part of my life…

While I agree with the part that you need to really enjoy an activity for it to sustain long term, the claim that you need to enjoy it when you're starting out doesn't sound right.

I love running. Yet, I struggle massively when I try getting back to it after a break. I love math. But it can be really painful to learn (most) of the math stuff the first time. I have to make a genuine effort and enforce discipline and trick/game my mindset to pick the initial momentum.

When people start a routine, they usually do have a desire of where they want to be. But that's not enough to create momentum. On the other hand, once you get some momentum, that itself creates further motivation and additional momentum from the sense of accomplishment.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#76

Post by goblin89 »

nickjj wrote: post #67

I think you need a complete change in mindset, because you're just setting yourself up for failure. You shouldn't need to develop a habit like reading or exercise. If you don't truly want to do these things then you'll stick to your systematic habit for a few days and it'll fizzle out, then it's back to the drawing board. I've been walking/jogging a few miles a day for the last 5 years or so. Now it's part of my life…

> If you find that too difficult, then your goal is not really something you care about, so think harder.

From personal experience, agreed that you shouldn’t have to make yourself, and instead realizing that you want it.

Disagreed with ‘think harder’, though. When mind is foggy, thinking harder doesn’t seem to help; and when mind is clear, things tend to be obvious without thinking.

When you woke up to a spinning room, you probably didn’t have to think too hard about goals or whether you’d want to experience that again. It was a moment of clarity. However, when everything is going mostly well and there are no incoming existential warnings—just normal ups and downs of life—such moments can be elusive to some of us.

I’d say regularly practicing different ways of inducing bouts of mindfulness (how? I wish I knew) might be the only habit worth development per se.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#77

Post by kstenerud »

Being uncomfortable leads to guilt and a sense of failure for good reason: You DID fail. Be honest.

How you handle failure tells a LOT about your character. Either you're a pussy who sits in a corner feeling sorry for yourself, or you take your lumps, then get up and go again.

Feeling warm and fuzzy all the time doesn't give you grit.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#78

Post by jabv »

cortesoft wrote: post #65
prostoalex wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second "The Power of Habit", Duhigg is the kind of writer you're looking for - aggregating scientific sources and multiple studies, but presenting them in very easy-to-consume popular-science format. Worth noting that the 21 day recommendation is "average", the actual "stick time" has a huge variation between a few days spent on "brush my teeth as soon as I wake up" habit to (likely) months that it would take to pi…

Running five miles before breakfast is more than just a habit; it is also a skill. Many people simply can't run 5 miles right now, they need to first train up to acquire the ability to do it.

I agree with you, but I think the parent was saying that even controlling for one's ability to successfully do a thing, some things (i.e. those that are more strenuous or otherwise require more commitment) take longer to solidify as habits, which makes sense if we think of habit-forming as environmental adaptation. One doesn't adapt to massive environmental changes after just a couple of weeks.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#79

Post by nickjj »

dpandey wrote: post #75
nickjj wrote: post #67

I think you need a complete change in mindset, because you're just setting yourself up for failure. You shouldn't need to develop a habit like reading or exercise. If you don't truly want to do these things then you'll stick to your systematic habit for a few days and it'll fizzle out, then it's back to the drawing board. I've been walking/jogging a few miles a day for the last 5 years or so. Now it's part of my life…

While I agree with the part that you need to really enjoy an activity for it to sustain long term, the claim that you need to enjoy it when you're starting out doesn't sound right. I love running. Yet, I struggle massively when I try getting back to it after a break. I love math. But it can be really painful to learn (most) of the math stuff the first time. I have to make a genuine effort and enforce discipline and t…

Why do you love math?

I don't walk only because of enjoyment. I want to do serious long term travel, and I know being able to walk long periods of time is going to be part of that life style.

If I REALLY want to spend years traveling the world (which I do), then I need to do things that help move the meter towards that goal. It should be exciting to do these things every day because it's one step closer to where you want to be. It's measurable progress and at the end of the day, that's a big win.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#80

Post by shock »

I've read the book The Power of Habit and found it enlightening, but the bits I'm having most trouble with are choosing rewards and getting started. The part about choosing rewards is, by far, the most difficult for me. Everybody keeps saying "make sure to reward yourself after doing the thing you want to make habitual" but nobody provides actual examples of rewards that work and are not harmful (no, I don't want to eat a cookie each time I do the habit).
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