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Ubuntu still isn't free software

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Re: Ubuntu still isn't free software

#71

Post by pietroalbini »

detaro wrote: post #57
jnbiche wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow, didn't know that. Good thing I usually block root access. Edit: Ah, my bad, you meant your SSH config, I misunderstood. I assume you're talking about blocking the document root of your web server, because at least on stock Ubuntu, you can't 100% block the root user from accessing anything (e.g., on Linux, a logged-in root can always use CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE to override permissions). Among other things, that's why…

I'd assume they are talking about the typical practice of disallowing ssh logins as root (instead logging in as a user and then using sudo for administrative tasks)

Yep, that was it!

Re: Ubuntu still isn't free software

#72

Post by tajen »

onli wrote: post #51
morganvachon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say this. Besides, Ubuntu has never been close to being a fully Free (Libre) distribution; like most other Linux based distros, it has a mix of Free software and closed source software and firmware. I don't disagree with Mr. Garrett's opinion that Canonical is in the wrong here, rather I'd say he's practically giving them a pass. Not only does Canonical try to impose policies and demands that violate the…

Where did they ever do that? Where did they ever bully an entity that made a derivative without using the term Ubuntu, where did they wrongly not give permission, where did they state ownership wrongly to sabotage another project? The only times I saw something in that direction was with modified Ubuntu images being called Ubuntu, where their motivation is clear: protecting their image and their users. If that is the…

Bully: Canonical's stance also means that startups who create a business on an Ubuntu derivative (e.g. Elementary.io) may not be able to raise money, or they'll have to raise money at a discount, because of the huge risk of litigation and the risk of the results completely voiding their business.

That Canonical hasn't done it yet doesn't mean they're not sabotaging an sector.

Re: Ubuntu still isn't free software

#73

Post by sjellis »

arca_vorago wrote: post #58

I have to admit I was (and am) anti-ubuntu, because of stuff like this from Mark and Canonical, but for a while it was the only distro that just worked with no problems on my work macbook pro, so I succumbed for practicalities sake. Now that I am working on my own projects full-time, I have switched to fedora on my desktop. My main reasoning as a sysadmin for distro choice goes like this: For server, debian, centos,…

Yeah, Ubuntu was revolutionary when it came out, because it made Debian accessible to a much broader audience and fixed all sorts of small but important hangnails, at a time when that was exactly what was needed.

Today, the gap between Ubuntu and Debian on cloud servers is fairly narrow: third-party packages tend to be built for Ubuntu, but Debian is fine. The big difference is that Ubuntu LTS releases have long, guaranteed support periods, which is very useful for business planning. I'm not going to comment on the Ubuntu desktop.

Re: Ubuntu still isn't free software

#75

Post by pjc50 »

piotrjurkiewicz wrote: post #70
geofft wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, the point is that they can't be refuted. They're not claims for which a refutation is a well-defined concept. Sartre once wrote this about anti-Semites, but it applies equally well here (and, to be clear, I am making no implication about whether the people using the same tactics today are also anti-Semites, just that they're using the same tactics): "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware o…

Comparing people who were trying to remind what the whole affair was really about (corruption in journalism) to antisemites. Well, it was hard to beat mjg59, but it seems you've managed to do so. He just censored them, in a childish way.

It was never about "corruption" in journalism, especially not in gaming journalism. If it had been, it would have focused on AAA devs rather than a random indie developer who was a woman.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/01/gamergate...

Re: Ubuntu still isn't free software

#76

Post by onli »

tajen wrote: post #72
onli wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did they ever do that? Where did they ever bully an entity that made a derivative without using the term Ubuntu, where did they wrongly not give permission, where did they state ownership wrongly to sabotage another project? The only times I saw something in that direction was with modified Ubuntu images being called Ubuntu, where their motivation is clear: protecting their image and their users. If that is the…

Bully: Canonical's stance also means that startups who create a business on an Ubuntu derivative (e.g. Elementary.io) may not be able to raise money, or they'll have to raise money at a discount, because of the huge risk of litigation and the risk of the results completely voiding their business. That Canonical hasn't done it yet doesn't mean they're not sabotaging an sector.

That would only be true if those derivatives had not received a written approval by canonical. I believe elementary did, as did many others. That's my point: In practice it seems to be a non-issue.

Re: Ubuntu still isn't free software

#78

Post by geofft »

pjc50 wrote: post #75
piotrjurkiewicz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing people who were trying to remind what the whole affair was really about (corruption in journalism) to antisemites. Well, it was hard to beat mjg59, but it seems you've managed to do so. He just censored them, in a childish way.

It was never about "corruption" in journalism, especially not in gaming journalism. If it had been, it would have focused on AAA devs rather than a random indie developer who was a woman. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/01/gamergate...

You're falling for the trick. 'piotrjurkiewicz isn't using words responsibly - I specifically and clearly said that I'm not comparing anyone to anti-Semitism as a belief, just the pattern of rhetorical arguments, and yet that was the objection. You are obligated to take seriously the claim that this is about ethics in journalism, when it simultaneously is and isn't, and yet 'piotrjurkiewicz feels no obligation to take what I said seriously.

In any case, the rest of Sartre's essay is completely on point. Among other things, it addresses this exact ability to believe a thing and its contradiction, and make it only a problem for the people who are trying to argue against them in good faith - it's quite scary how accurately Sartre in 1944 was able to understand these modes of trolling (and trolling is really the term for it). Harvard has the first chapter online:

http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic468841.files/Sart...

There's an interesting question in there of what, exactly, the anti-Semite is going to do once they're not able to hate the Jew. That's the only thing Sartre couldn't see in 1944, but he did see that it's not about anything the Jewish people are or do, but as the other. Today we've declared anti-Semitism unacceptable, but we've got enough other others.

Re: Ubuntu still isn't free software

#79

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #75
piotrjurkiewicz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing people who were trying to remind what the whole affair was really about (corruption in journalism) to antisemites. Well, it was hard to beat mjg59, but it seems you've managed to do so. He just censored them, in a childish way.

It was never about "corruption" in journalism, especially not in gaming journalism. If it had been, it would have focused on AAA devs rather than a random indie developer who was a woman. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/01/gamergate...

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu still isn't free software

#80

Post by grzm »

geofft wrote: post #78
pjc50 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was never about "corruption" in journalism, especially not in gaming journalism. If it had been, it would have focused on AAA devs rather than a random indie developer who was a woman. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/01/gamergate...

You're falling for the trick. 'piotrjurkiewicz isn't using words responsibly - I specifically and clearly said that I'm not comparing anyone to anti-Semitism as a belief, just the pattern of rhetorical arguments, and yet that was the objection. You are obligated to take seriously the claim that this is about ethics in journalism, when it simultaneously is and isn't, and yet 'piotrjurkiewicz feels no obligation to tak…

If you can figure out a way to make introduce your general argument without referencing anti-semitism, you will be much less open to hijacking of the conversation in just the way you observe here. Especially in online discussions, introducing flame-war inducing topics even in passing is likely to derail the conversation.
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