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Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

reuters.com

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Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#71

Post by j-pb »

zzzzzzzzzman wrote: post #61
j-pb wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the banana was grown on the fields that the other monkeys paid for, transported on the roads that the other monkeys paid for and the monkey received it's education on how to get it's banana from a school that the other monkeys funded. If you live on a farm off the grid have solar power, collect your own rain water and don't ever leave your plot of land fine don't pay taxes. But if you want the niceties of civ…

"If you live on a farm off the grid...." I agree, the monkey that does what you described shouldn't be forced to pay taxes. But I am still confused as to why the monkey and his family can't attend private schools, drive on private roads, receive medical services from a private doctor, and donate any bananas he voluntarily decides to contribute to right the wrongs of his monkey island :) In my opinion, the other monke…

Because all those private services that you describe in turn use public services.

Unless all these private services band together so that they become truly widespread and form something that makes paying for them easier. Maybe to make it fair the people that use them the most and profit the most from them should pay the most. Maybe we could call such a banding of public services a nation and call the usage fees taxes....

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#72

Post by kalleboo »

edblarney wrote: post #36
adamlett wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) They are super, super aggressive when it comes to tax things. Cheating on taxes is worse than some major crimes! Which major crimes would that be? I'm a Dane, and this sounds ridiculous to me. 2) They are culturally anti-business and anti-entrepreneurial. That is way overstating it at best, and at worst just BS. True, we in the Nordic countries (or at least in Denmark), don't have quite the reverence for business…

My (half) brother is Danish. The 'anti tax' statement is his, told to me, while I was in Denmark. The Danish tax authorities have to know specific things about your status - including if you carpool to work or not, in order to establish your tax status. They tax in a different way there - they establish your 'effective rate', rather than doing tons of deductions. Whether or not you carpool for example, affects your r…

> The 'anti business' attitude in Scandinavian countries is (or was) palpable, esp. among anyone over say 45. It's a much more difficult thing to illustrate, but go ahead and talk to an older Swede. You'll see what I mean.

I'm Swedish, my Aunt is a hardcore "thought the USSR was great"-Vänsterpartiet-leftist, but even she does some work as self-employed entrepreneur and when I came of age and started doing contract work breathlessly started telling me about all the stuff I could deduct off my taxes.

I don't think you can generalize this.

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#73

Post by aninhumer »

robert_foss wrote: post #26
edblarney wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So, they want to encourage ride-sharing in the original meaning - carpooling. Not the "taxi company in disguise" meaning. Sounds fair enough to me." I'm not necessarily a fan of Uber, but this is ridiculous. If 'taxis' are legal in Sweden then there's no reason Uber should not be able to operate so long as they are obeying the laws . Ostensibly, this is about a specific issue - distance travelled and the lack of abi…

As a Swede: 1) Cheating on taxes is quite literally stealing from every other person in the country. That being said I think there is a lot of small scale cheating going, especially for small cash-driven businesses. 2) There's no hostility towards entrepreneurs as far as I've seen it, quite the opposite. However people in general do seem to realize that there is a very real tradeoff between business interests and the…

>You can't have 0% corporate tax and free healthcare and education.

I don't think this was really your point, but is there any particular reason you think there's a need for corporate tax, rather than just taking the same money via capital gains tax?

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#74

Post by cyxxon »

zzzzzzzzzman wrote: post #42

"1) Cheating on taxes is quite literally stealing from every other person in the country. That being said I think there is a lot of small scale cheating going, especially for small cash-driven businesses." I disagree. One monkey says to a group of other monkeys, "we all need to take one of the 5 bananas we individually have and place it into a central banana disbursement fund". Then, another monkey from the group ref…

All the monkeys only got the bananas because they were transported to them on public roads paid for by taxes, etc. Wait, you mean your example doesn't really fit the problem at hand?

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#75

Post by krisroadruck »

3poundkilograms wrote: post #50
zzzzzzzzzman wrote: post #42

"1) Cheating on taxes is quite literally stealing from every other person in the country. That being said I think there is a lot of small scale cheating going, especially for small cash-driven businesses." I disagree. One monkey says to a group of other monkeys, "we all need to take one of the 5 bananas we individually have and place it into a central banana disbursement fund". Then, another monkey from the group ref…

One monkey says to a group of other monkeys: "We all need to take one of the 5 bananas we individually have to feed the doctor monkey, the asphalt monkey and the teacher monkey, from whom we receive services." One monkey from the group, which just came back in his car from the doctor monkey with his daughter that goes to the local monkey school: "I refuse to give up my bananas!". Remember context. Full context is imp…

One monkey says to a group of other monkeys: "We all need to take one of the 5 bananas we individually have to pay for a 1.2 trillion banana fighter jet that doesnt work, and also to give bananas to people who aren't contributing any bananas at all"

One monkey from the group, who makes 4 of the 5 bananas, and doesn't want a 1.2 trillion banana fighter jet notices that all the people who are clamoring to take bananas aren't putting in any of the bananas themselves but are instead on the receiving end of the banana transfer, gets annoyed that they are basically having a meeting to take his bananas and give them to themselves. He gets upset by this"

Remember context. Full Context is important.

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#76

Post by Bartweiss »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #10

> Uber is currently seeking to convince Europe's top court that it is a digital service, not a transport company, in a case that could determine whether app-based startups should be exempt from strict laws meant for regular companies. Uber found a way to abide by New York State's existing regulations for a special license for drivers and commercial insurance. Everywhere else it plays make-believe - 'we're just a tech…

> The taxi company that I used to drive for was large enough to build its own modern [1] app-based dispatching system.

If nothing else, I appreciate that Uber is pushing taxi companies to develop on-demand hailing apps. I've started seeing local companies advertise them specifically in response to Uber's success.

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#77

Post by j-pb »

thlst wrote: post #67
3poundkilograms wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One monkey says to a group of other monkeys: "We all need to take one of the 5 bananas we individually have to feed the doctor monkey, the asphalt monkey and the teacher monkey, from whom we receive services." One monkey from the group, which just came back in his car from the doctor monkey with his daughter that goes to the local monkey school: "I refuse to give up my bananas!". Remember context. Full context is imp…

That sounds like forcing a service (that you might not want) down your throat, and accusing you of stealing if you refuse to pay. It would be surprisingly better to let monkeys pay for what they want to use, instead of making every monkey pay for what they won't ever use.

Everybody is a neoliberal until they have to pay for their own hospital bill.

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#78

Post by edblarney »

robert_foss wrote: post #26
edblarney wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So, they want to encourage ride-sharing in the original meaning - carpooling. Not the "taxi company in disguise" meaning. Sounds fair enough to me." I'm not necessarily a fan of Uber, but this is ridiculous. If 'taxis' are legal in Sweden then there's no reason Uber should not be able to operate so long as they are obeying the laws . Ostensibly, this is about a specific issue - distance travelled and the lack of abi…

As a Swede: 1) Cheating on taxes is quite literally stealing from every other person in the country. That being said I think there is a lot of small scale cheating going, especially for small cash-driven businesses. 2) There's no hostility towards entrepreneurs as far as I've seen it, quite the opposite. However people in general do seem to realize that there is a very real tradeoff between business interests and the…

"As a Swede: 1) Cheating on taxes is quite literally stealing from every other person in the country."

Yes - thanks for this.

You made my point better than I could.

'Cheating on taxes' is seen as much more of an 'immoral crime' in Scandinavia, than in other places.

In Canada, 'cheating on taxes' is seen like maybe 'cheating a payment' or something. It's 'wrong' obviously, but there is not a 'stigma'.

For whatever reasons (socialized culture, very small community where cause/effect are direct - I don't know? - you tell me :)) - cheating on taxes is a 'much bigger deal', socially, and probably even legally.

But you said it better than I did :)

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#79

Post by zzzzzzzzzman »

dvdhnt wrote: post #59
zzzzzzzzzman wrote: post #42

"1) Cheating on taxes is quite literally stealing from every other person in the country. That being said I think there is a lot of small scale cheating going, especially for small cash-driven businesses." I disagree. One monkey says to a group of other monkeys, "we all need to take one of the 5 bananas we individually have and place it into a central banana disbursement fund". Then, another monkey from the group ref…

"Then, another monkey from the group refuses to give up one of his bananas. How is this refusal equal to stealing?" You're leaving out the veterinarian who accepts a payment of bananas equal to the number of monkeys within the group. That'd be fine if the refusing monkey didn't go on to accept healthcare from said vet. But since he does, the other monkeys must chip in more banana to meet the required payment since no…

"But since he does..."

This is a fatal assumption to make ;) I personally pay income taxes, do not have health insurance, and on the off times I require medical/dental care, I go to a private medical practice.

It is therefore immoral to force me to pay for a service I am choosing not to use :)

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#80

Post by dagw »

hopfog wrote: post #45
kalleboo wrote: post #3

So, they want to encourage ride-sharing in the original meaning - carpooling. Not the "taxi company in disguise" meaning. Sounds fair enough to me. For context, the taxi regulation in Sweden is very light. There is no medallion system limiting the number of cars, and no regulation of prices. You just need an extended driver's license, an approved taxi-meter (same as how grocery stores need their scales to be approved…

> You just need an extended driver's license, an approved taxi-meter (same as how grocery stores need their scales to be approved), and the pricing plan listed clearly in the window. You're omitting the most important thing here: the actual taxi traffic permit. That's the hard part in this process.

That's the hard part in this process.

Not in Sweden. There are probably hundreds of taxi companies in Sweden and starting a new one is basically no harder than starting any other company.

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