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Keybase chooses Zcash

keybase.io

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Re: Keybase chooses Zcash

#71

Post by tromp »

Taek wrote: post #44
computerwizard wrote: post #26

I recommend supporting Zclassic also ( http://Zclassic.org ) It's the same exact code as Zcash except there is no 20% "genius" tax for 4 years. It's the fair choice and even has the blessing of Zcash developer Zooko.

I think it's worth paying the "genius" tax. Though controversial, the tax manifests in the form of inflation and will help fund a company that can get things running and stable. Of all the qualms I have with Zcash, I think that their mining fee is one of the cleaner ways in the ecosystem to fund altcoin development. This technology takes a lot of effort, and a lot of salary money to develop. And then you have to do m…

The slow start was a good way to avoid unfair distribution in the beginning phase when miner implementations were still being written, deployed, tested, debugged, ported and optimized.

In fact I would advocate for a zero-day start, where the first few hundred blocks following genesis have exactly 0 reward, coupled with an overestimated initial difficulty, so people have some less stress-full time to get set up and sort out technical problems.

The crazy initial prices are abusive to no-one except the fools who pay them.

Re: Keybase chooses Zcash

#72

Post by pero »

Taek wrote: post #68
kyledrake wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Can someone chime in here and give me an argument for why Zcash is better than Monero? Because everybody I've talked to thinks Monero is better. I'm not saying it is, but Monero came out far earlier than Zcash, and unless there is a substantial argument for using it over Monero, I'm not convinced of the argument to standardize on it. The only striking difference I can see between Monero and Zcash is that Zcash…

I do not understand all of the details behind Monero, but basically the privacy is incomplete. When you spend money, you basically say "I am one of X people", where X is usually fairly small. It's a lot better than Bitcoin where X=1, but it's still something that advanced algorithms can get though, and it still collapses if enough people have their identities and transactions revealed. In Zcash on the other hand, you…

I don't think you understand how Monero works _at all_ - let me fix one of your arguments to illustrate:

>When you spend money, you basically say "I am one of 2^256 people", where 2^256 is usually fairly small.

Disappointing/embarrassing level of insight from a crypto project leader - here's a good layman-friendly video https://youtu.be/GEVm1dMn5Ks?t=14m to bring you up to speed (the simplified example is continued at 20m).

Re: Keybase chooses Zcash

#73

Post by Ar-Curunir »

Taek wrote: post #44
computerwizard wrote: post #26

I recommend supporting Zclassic also ( http://Zclassic.org ) It's the same exact code as Zcash except there is no 20% "genius" tax for 4 years. It's the fair choice and even has the blessing of Zcash developer Zooko.

I think it's worth paying the "genius" tax. Though controversial, the tax manifests in the form of inflation and will help fund a company that can get things running and stable. Of all the qualms I have with Zcash, I think that their mining fee is one of the cleaner ways in the ecosystem to fund altcoin development. This technology takes a lot of effort, and a lot of salary money to develop. And then you have to do m…

Privacy of ZCash is not affected by the underlying cryptography; the zero knowledge proofs used enjoy perfect zero knowledge, which does not rely on any cryptographic assumptions.

Re: Keybase chooses Zcash

#74

Post by [deleted] »

pero wrote: post #72
Taek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand all of the details behind Monero, but basically the privacy is incomplete. When you spend money, you basically say "I am one of X people", where X is usually fairly small. It's a lot better than Bitcoin where X=1, but it's still something that advanced algorithms can get though, and it still collapses if enough people have their identities and transactions revealed. In Zcash on the other hand, you…

I don't think you understand how Monero works _at all_ - let me fix one of your arguments to illustrate: >When you spend money, you basically say "I am one of 2^256 people", where 2^256 is usually fairly small. Disappointing/embarrassing level of insight from a crypto project leader - here's a good layman-friendly video https://youtu.be/GEVm1dMn5Ks?t=14m to bring you up to speed (the simplified example is continued a…

[deleted]

Re: Keybase chooses Zcash

#75

Post by hrumph »

kyledrake wrote: post #45
StavrosK wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a data point, I found the example perfectly clear, although I do wish you had added Monero instead of Zcash, just because it looks more legitimate to my uninformed eyes.

This. Can someone chime in here and give me an argument for why Zcash is better than Monero? Because everybody I've talked to thinks Monero is better. I'm not saying it is, but Monero came out far earlier than Zcash, and unless there is a substantial argument for using it over Monero, I'm not convinced of the argument to standardize on it. The only striking difference I can see between Monero and Zcash is that Zcash…

Zcash is definitely better in the sense that it has big money investors, the ear of the NYT and now Gavin Andreson shilling for it. Technically, on the other hand, it's a dud in it's current form. It doesn't have anon by default (because the anon transactions take too many resources to generate) and the few anon transactions that occur are subject to timing analysis.

Re: Keybase chooses Zcash

#76

Post by CiPHPerCoder »

petertodd wrote: post #62
elif wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but proof that (Beyond the 10% pre-mine) more ZEC are not being secretly generated for the creators relies upon trust in a cabal of six individuals based upon a "public" exhibition of genesis involving theatrical destruction of computers (whose video was supposed to be published but I can't find?) Even if they are 100% legitimate actors, the lack of absolute proof undermines the provenance. From my perspective,…

> Beyond the 10% pre-mine It's 20% for the next few years, not 10%

2.1 million total for the Founder's Reward out of 21 million total that will ever be minted = 10%

Re: Keybase chooses Zcash

#77

Post by petertodd »

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #76
petertodd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Beyond the 10% pre-mine It's 20% for the next few years, not 10%

2.1 million total for the Founder's Reward out of 21 million total that will ever be minted = 10%

That's why I said "for the next few years"

Re: Keybase chooses Zcash

#78

Post by eridius »

pablovidal85 wrote: post #48
CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I could come up with something better, they would have done that. Don't give up so easily! If you're going to make a stance borne out of principle, why not follow through to outperform the suboptimal solution that you dislike so much? Innovate. Put some skin in the game. That's what I would do, anyway. As it stands: If any of the folks involved in the trusted setup was honest, then it's secure. It takes a 100% c…

Why such a small group of people though?

ewillbefull explains in another comment that the protocol is really expensive per participant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12979677

Re: Keybase chooses Zcash

#79

Post by jerguismi »

pero wrote: post #72
Taek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand all of the details behind Monero, but basically the privacy is incomplete. When you spend money, you basically say "I am one of X people", where X is usually fairly small. It's a lot better than Bitcoin where X=1, but it's still something that advanced algorithms can get though, and it still collapses if enough people have their identities and transactions revealed. In Zcash on the other hand, you…

I don't think you understand how Monero works _at all_ - let me fix one of your arguments to illustrate: >When you spend money, you basically say "I am one of 2^256 people", where 2^256 is usually fairly small. Disappointing/embarrassing level of insight from a crypto project leader - here's a good layman-friendly video https://youtu.be/GEVm1dMn5Ks?t=14m to bring you up to speed (the simplified example is continued a…

Hmm. I don't think this is clear issue at all. I have been looking at monero block explorer, and there seems to be "mixing level" etc parameters. What do these parameters imply if not the level of how many people you mix the inputs with?

I mean, your argument "you're stupid, look at this youtube video" is not very convincing either.

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