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Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

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Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#71

Post by pcwalton »

atom-morgan wrote: post #12
RickS wrote: post #7

From the screenshot he himself provided [1], it looks like he was confronted about making people at YC feel unsafe, and responded by saying they "shouldn't be on the internet". Contrarian views are one thing. Addressing the people who fund your company like a belligerent troll is another. You're entitled to free speech, you're not entitled to a captive ear to hear it. [1] http://i.imgur.com/ReFx2Mr.png

"feel unsafe" has been more subjective and ridiculous than ever.

Surprise! When you publicly mock and scorn someone who was privately expressing fear that the person who will soon become the most powerful man in the world is about to use state-sanctioned violence to force you out of the country (to say nothing of the unrepudiated extrajudicial violence regularly dished out by his supporters), then you are in fact making people feel unsafe! The literal, dictionary definition of "unsafe"!

Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#72

Post by maverick_iceman »

merb wrote: post #30
exolymph wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> insulting people or a group of people is not free speech anymore it's actually a crime. This is incorrect. https://popehat.com/2016/06/11/hello-youve-been-referred-her...

well maybe not in america. in my country (germany) you get into jail for insulting, see StGB (§ 185 Beleidigung). https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=h...

Well, then your country doesn't have free speech.

Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#73

Post by maverick_iceman »

merb wrote: post #16

well even if his ban wasn't deserved... he made it deserving, just watching his twitter account (not facebook etc), looks like he is somebody that is not a great guy and can't stand such things. I mean he actually posted a picture of him self and his middlefinger pointing at ycombinator?! seriously he is a hater and not somebody that should be taken seriously. insulting people or a group of people is not free speech…

It's insulting and objectionable speech that is in the highest need of protection. Freedom of speech is not really an issue for bland pronouncements like "I love my mother" or "I stand for peace."

Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#74

Post by maverick_iceman »

sabertoothed wrote: post #24
rebootthesystem wrote: post #17

Freedom of speech does not mean one is free from the consequences of speech. This is something a lot of young folks don't seem to understand. You can say anything you want. Go for it. And you will own the consequences of what you said, whatever they might be. I offer this as a general comment. Not taking sides on the issue highlighted by the post. I simply think it is important to point out this reality in case it is…

"Freedom of speech does not mean one is free from the consequences of speech." Not sure this makes sense. It's like saying you are free to murder someone. But then you have to live with the consequences. Which leads the concept of freedom ad absurdum. My point is that freedom of speech has never been unlimited. In my country it is slightly more restrictive than in the US but even the US does not have a 100% perfect f…

If in your country government censors any speech then you're not living in a free country.

Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#75

Post by merb »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #73
merb wrote: post #16

well even if his ban wasn't deserved... he made it deserving, just watching his twitter account (not facebook etc), looks like he is somebody that is not a great guy and can't stand such things. I mean he actually posted a picture of him self and his middlefinger pointing at ycombinator?! seriously he is a hater and not somebody that should be taken seriously. insulting people or a group of people is not free speech…

It's insulting and objectionable speech that is in the highest need of protection. Freedom of speech is not really an issue for bland pronouncements like "I love my mother" or "I stand for peace."

if I say "fuck you" it's not really freedom of speech. I directly insulted you, I didn't even want a conversation, I directly harmed you. People who think they can the "free speech" excuse for insults are just horrible, they don't understand that free speech is to actually say something in a nice manner which needs to be addressed not just to hammer on some people who do it wrong, that's a different thing and people actually don't get that right, probably because there is a really small line between insulting and objectonable speech, but still you know when somebody insulted somebody and he actually did, he didn't want to address his behavior he just expressed his meaning with insults and not any objectonable speech.

If I would've been banned, I would try to address that as well, but not in such a hateful manner than he did.

Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#76

Post by merb »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #72
merb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well maybe not in america. in my country (germany) you get into jail for insulting, see StGB (§ 185 Beleidigung). https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=h...

Well, then your country doesn't have free speech.

it probably has, it probably has more free speech than america. we just differ, between harm to people and free speech, we don't defend ourself that free speech needs insults to be successfull, (it doesn't).

Actually there was even a law case against 'Böhmermann' wo made a satire for Erdogan, actually it was pretty harmful but the law said it was a satire so he was protected. There is a small line between free speech and being harmful and it also should be decided on a case by case basis, for some. But other people actually use our right to free speech to do harm and that is bad since that will sooner or later hurt our own right.

Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#77

Post by DanBC »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #73
merb wrote: post #16

well even if his ban wasn't deserved... he made it deserving, just watching his twitter account (not facebook etc), looks like he is somebody that is not a great guy and can't stand such things. I mean he actually posted a picture of him self and his middlefinger pointing at ycombinator?! seriously he is a hater and not somebody that should be taken seriously. insulting people or a group of people is not free speech…

It's insulting and objectionable speech that is in the highest need of protection. Freedom of speech is not really an issue for bland pronouncements like "I love my mother" or "I stand for peace."

I can disagree with you without calling you a cowardly cuck. What's the value of a conversation that includes such insults?

Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#78

Post by seemingly »

mundo wrote: post #20
atom-morgan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"feel unsafe" has been more subjective and ridiculous than ever.

"unsafe" has become a bit of a buzzword in the interminable red-vs-blue wars, but everything else about this would've played out the same way if she had said he was "inappropriate" or "unprofessional". Looks to me like free speech is still free and trolling at work still has consequences and there's not much to see here unless you're personally involved with one of the companies.

I both disagree and dislike both Trump and his supporters. Yet, I realize if you want to diversity of opinion like YC says it wants you can't throw people out when they annoy you. Diverse political discussion among laymen where no one gets annoyed essentially doesn't exist. Peoples opinions follow their perspective, what they understand and what they care about. Just as I take offense to what Trump says people who like Trump will take offense when people say he's a populist, racist or sexist. They will get frustrated and express themselves in ways that aren't productive, but also don't seem that bad to them since they don't think what Trump says is bad.

I've excluded people for less, but then I haven't as YC asked sometimes awkward people to be stressed out for a long period of time while saying that diversity of opinion is valued.

Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#79

Post by sabertoothed »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #74
sabertoothed wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Freedom of speech does not mean one is free from the consequences of speech." Not sure this makes sense. It's like saying you are free to murder someone. But then you have to live with the consequences. Which leads the concept of freedom ad absurdum. My point is that freedom of speech has never been unlimited. In my country it is slightly more restrictive than in the US but even the US does not have a 100% perfect f…

If in your country government censors any speech then you're not living in a free country.

If that is the case, then you do not live in a free country. And then a free country would not even be desirable.

Examples for the US that apparently are exceptions to free speech: - Incitement / fighting words - False statement of facts - Child pornography - Commercial speech (special rules apply) I am not sure if you are allowed to insult a police officer.

Re: Y Combinator blacklists founder of Gab.ai

#80

Post by alva »

tafeminist wrote: post #52
sama wrote: post #36

We support free speech, obviously. And we're happy to fund people with all sorts of different political views. We do not allow harassment, for which Andrew unfortunately set a new bar in our community. You can look at his Twitter or Facebook for plenty of public examples, to say nothing of what he's said privately. As per our previous comments, when a founder violates our ethics statement, we remove them from the com…

@sama Sam Altman, can you explain your reasoning for banning a company that merely wrote something on Twitter, but you allowed Jumpcut from S16 who actually went into the streets and filmed street harassment (forcefully kissing women without permission, massaging them without permission, and "motor-boating" them as an incentive for charity) with their brand Simple Pickup? Here are links proving my point: http://www.d…

I think this needs to be answered by YC
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