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Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

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Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#71

Post by _pius »

jerf wrote: post #49
_pius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great moral courage there. YC has a choice: do what IBM did in the 1930's or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust And before you say I'm "going Godwin," remember: It was Sam and Paul who've said they think Trump is a threat of similar proportions. If Sam really thinks that, the moral thing to do is cut ties. And yes, it'll be hard. Would have been easier to do before the election. It will only get…

Yes, you went Godwin. Trump isn't Hitler. That's election propaganda, not truth. Election's over. Time to put the election propaganda away. Now, you might still not like him. Heck, let me take a bold step and say you won't like him. He will do things you won't like. Welcome to the real world. My government's been doing things I don't like my entire life. (Along with all the things I do like.) But I rate the odds that…

Yes, you went Godwin. Trump isn't Hitler.

That's a vacuous argument. No one's Hitler except Hitler. No one called him Hitler except in your strawman. We can only judge the President-elect on what his stated plans are.

And one of his plans is literally to make Muslims register the same way Jews were made to register before the Holocaust. IBM faced an analogous choice: cut ties for moral reasons or preserve the relationship for expediency's sake.

The historical precedent is germane.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#72

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ubernostrum wrote: post #42
darawk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he didn't. He suggested, correctly, that women getting the vote was bad for libertarians, because women vote against it. If you read the quote in context, that is very clearly what he's saying.

In context his suggestion is that women being allowed to vote is incompatible with enacting his ideal philosophy of government. Which in turn implies that the only way to implement his ideal philosophy of government would be to deny women the right to vote.

> Which in turn implies that the only way to implement his ideal philosophy of government would be to deny women the right to vote.

And that Thiel would prefer his ideal system to a world where women can vote and prevent his ideal.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#73

Post by fucking_tragedy »

ikeboy wrote: post #31
_pius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great moral courage there. YC has a choice: do what IBM did in the 1930's or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust And before you say I'm "going Godwin," remember: It was Sam and Paul who've said they think Trump is a threat of similar proportions. If Sam really thinks that, the moral thing to do is cut ties. And yes, it'll be hard. Would have been easier to do before the election. It will only get…

Wouldn't the point where it becomes morally obligatory to do that be once Trump actually starts doing things that are comparable? Right now we don't really know which of his promises he plans on actually keeping.

We can go by his stated intentions to help determine where in the realm of possibility his future actions might play out. Mass deportations and a retreat on civil rights and equality are within that realm.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#74

Post by imron »

untog wrote: post #27

Edit: Flagged? Wow. This conversation seems extremely relevant to Thiel being in government. Genuinely disappointing that the people in charge of HN do not consider Thiel's extreme views to be worthy of discussion, and instead a "pudding".

Actual quote:

"Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron."

So not that giving the women the vote was a bad thing, just an observation on how women vote.

In follow up comments he said:

"It would be absurd to suggest that women’s votes will be taken away or that this would solve the political problems that vex us. While I don’t think any class of people should be disenfranchised, I have little hope that voting will make things better."

In other words, voting isn't enough to bring about needed change (look at the U.S. over the last 2 decades for evidence of this)

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#75

Post by flukus »

untog wrote: post #44
darawk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he didn't. He suggested, correctly, that women getting the vote was bad for libertarians, because women vote against it. If you read the quote in context, that is very clearly what he's saying.

Edit: conversation was flagged, so I'm out.

Well sure, if you add all your own words and biases in it sounds like that's exactly what he's saying.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#76

Post by wsmith »

moultano wrote: post #39
untog wrote: post #27

Edit: Flagged? Wow. This conversation seems extremely relevant to Thiel being in government. Genuinely disappointing that the people in charge of HN do not consider Thiel's extreme views to be worthy of discussion, and instead a "pudding".

>Thiel suggested in 2009 that giving women the vote was a bad thing. He did not say that. Read the article yourself. https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...

Also note Thiel added remarks to the article at the bottom, including:

It would be absurd to suggest that women’s votes will be taken away or that this would solve the political problems that vex us.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#77

Post by 67726e »

the_decider wrote: post #55
charia wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this satire?

No. Its a legitimate idea currently making the headway in our community. And if you think its ridiculous, let me ask you...Is the notion of a seperatist, intelligently run Californian sovereign state any less ridiculous than the notion of a Trump Presidency two years ago? We've always been a community of disruptors...well, now's our opportunity to really distrupt. https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/10/calexit-is-silicon-…

Greetings from Charleston, South Carolina. Let us know how your secession plans work out.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#78

Post by paulddraper »

untog wrote: post #44
darawk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he didn't. He suggested, correctly, that women getting the vote was bad for libertarians, because women vote against it. If you read the quote in context, that is very clearly what he's saying.

Edit: conversation was flagged, so I'm out.

Your jump in logic is

"It's bad that over 60 million people died during WWII."

=>

"It's bad that the the Allies fought Hitler."

---

He said that he doubts democracy and freedom are incompatible.

Did he say either one was bad?

Lots of ideals are incompatible.

100% democracy and 100% freedom are are not fully compatible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob_rule For example, the minority must be protected from the majority.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#79

Post by rfrank »

untog wrote: post #44
darawk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he didn't. He suggested, correctly, that women getting the vote was bad for libertarians, because women vote against it. If you read the quote in context, that is very clearly what he's saying.

Edit: conversation was flagged, so I'm out.

Bad for your cause and bad for society aren't the same thing. The thoughts on freedom and democracy are at least as old as Alexis de Tocqueville. Maybe try actually reading some political theory.

1. http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2015/03/equality-t...

2. http://www.city-journal.org/html/end-democracy-america-14332...

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#80

Post by kyleblarson »

overgard wrote: post #26
_pius wrote: post #2

Meanwhile, Trump's already got an RFS in waiting: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-says-he-... https://www.ycombinator.com/rfs/ The longer YC waits to do the right thing on this, the worse it will get.

"The right thing". Tolerance means recognizing that people have different world views than your own. Sometimes the people you do business with have political opinions you don't agree with. The melodrama over Thiel's political opinions is pointless. If you demand Thiel steps down, are you personally just going to stop doing business with 49% of the country that voted differently? Personally I lean liberal, but I'm pre…

The 'brick through the window' analogy is one of the most apt I've heard so far given the increasingly violent tendency of 'protesters' in this country.
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