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Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#71

Post by redcalx »

moyta wrote: post #56
redcalx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a selection bias issue here. E.g. if there were some underling genetic disorder that causes anxiety, then that person is less likely to join a group.

Eh, I would say most new scouts are pretty anxious, and they also potentially come with other issues like asthma that likes to flare up, seizures, diabetes, etc. having had to deal with patrol members with these issues, sometimes 2 having one of these issues at the same time out of a group of 6 or 7. Generally you deal with it as quickly & safely as possible, get the rest of your patrol to rally and do what is needed…

You're conflating 'experiencing anxiety' with 'some underlying condition that increases the tendency to experience anxiety (and it's severity)'. The first cohort is a subgroup of the second.

Or just switch anxiety for depression - i.e. everyday depression and 'clinical' depression are not the same thing.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#72

Post by joakes »

throwaway1892 wrote: post #12
toomanybeersies wrote: post #4

I was in scouts and cadets here in New Zealand when I was a teenager and continue to spend a fair amount of time in the outdoors (I also did Outward Bound when I was 16), and I can definitely relate to the researcher's findings. When you're 2 days walk from civilisation, it's pissing down with rain, and you're cold, wet, hungry, and tired, you get a different perspective on life and the "soft" challenges that you fac…

One thing that I got from my time as a scout is to live and work with people I can't stand, which is something that has helped me a lot since that time.

Not to take away from scouts, but I feel like this study could apply to any group that a child decides to stick with and learn from. Sports teach resilience and the like, as well does joining a music group. My club soccer team during high school was unbeaten for most seasons and ended up state champions, but most of us didn't hangout afterwards or even like each other.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#73

Post by moyta »

rtpg wrote: post #66

I greatly enjoyed my time in the Scouts as a kid in the US. Unfortunately, when I moved to France and joined the scouts there, I found it to be a hotbed for far-right beliefs that I was deeply uncomfortable around. There's something about getting a bunch of guys out in the forest that brings out the worst in us I suppose. People who I would otherwise assume to be nice talking about ethnic cleansing positively. It's a…

That is really quite sad, outside the Mormon run troops, most are very accepting here in the US, that being said it can get pretty fucked up pretty quick conversation wise. Making me think back to singing "Killing the baby seals" & jokes about the handy ole multicolored abortion scoop & coat hanger, but all in good jest usually.

I do imagine having a few openly gay scouts in our troop and good leadership did keep things from skewing far right, its hard to advocate against a race or orientation when you spend hundreds of hours with people of said race or orientation over the course of a year doing constructive things.

We had a great scout here from Hong Kong on exchange, so not all scouting programs outside the US suck! It may just be a bad troop too, the Mormon troops in the US are like a whole different organization policy wise. Very clannish.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#74

Post by ragebol »

Luc wrote: post #68
ragebol wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dutch scout here, I've been a scout since I was 7 and I'm now 28 and a cub scout leader (kids aged 7-11). Being in scouting can be perceived (in NL at least) as for nerds/geeks or 'corny' (don't know what is a good translation for the Dutch 'oubollig') Especially when the kids hit puberty (the scouts/guides age), this negative image thing among school peers can be a reason for kids to quit. When I was that age, I did…

Thanks! I remember more details: this was about the 'instemming' (in Delft), a sort of interview you need to go through to get a room. So I suppose being uncool could be a factor there.

Never been to such a night, but apparently it helps if you have a washing machine or dishwasher or stuff like that to bring into the student house.

There are some student-scout groups in some Dutch student cities, maybe Delft has one too.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#75

Post by silversmith »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #4

I was in scouts and cadets here in New Zealand when I was a teenager and continue to spend a fair amount of time in the outdoors (I also did Outward Bound when I was 16), and I can definitely relate to the researcher's findings. When you're 2 days walk from civilisation, it's pissing down with rain, and you're cold, wet, hungry, and tired, you get a different perspective on life and the "soft" challenges that you fac…

This comment made me think back to my childhood. I've never been in any organized outdoor/military groups, but a phrase I heard a whole lot while growing up was "you have to". Things like doing chores or homework were not presented as "should", but rather "have to". My protests were usually met with "yes, we hear you, but you still have to". Pissed me off to no end back then, but in retrospect has been highly valuable in teaching the same attitude towards problems - they don't just go away on their own.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#76

Post by arethuza »

wayn3 wrote: post #31
r1k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that depends where in Europe.

the top left side. you're not going to freeze to death in southern italy

Being from the top left of Europe and having suffered the consequences of making bad assumptions about weather in Italy in winter ("It's Italy, must be warm") I'd always check.

For example, you might quite easily freeze to death at the top of Mount Etna! (And/or burned to death).

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#77

Post by throwaway1892 »

joakes wrote: post #72
throwaway1892 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that I got from my time as a scout is to live and work with people I can't stand, which is something that has helped me a lot since that time.

Not to take away from scouts, but I feel like this study could apply to any group that a child decides to stick with and learn from. Sports teach resilience and the like, as well does joining a music group. My club soccer team during high school was unbeaten for most seasons and ended up state champions, but most of us didn't hangout afterwards or even like each other.

I don't disagree, but for me, since I did not practice team sports, so I got this from my time with scouts.

Still, it's a bit different for the scouts since you will live for extended periods of time together, like 10+ days for the summer outing.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#78

Post by moyta »

Spearchucker wrote: post #5

I was a boy scout in the late '70s and early '80s. Loved it, and although I was too young to care at the time, my son will probably not join because religion. Yes, they have a "non-religious promise" now, but you're still subjected to it. I don't care for it, and my son will (like I did) get to choose for himself but (unlike me) without being forcibly subjected to the propaganda. All that said, scouting has changed s…

Depends what troop your son joins, the strong surviving troops that have more than a dozen scouts & stable funding are either filled with atheists & have a few openly gay scouts, or are run by the Mormons. I know in my patrol alone 3 to 4 of the scouts were atheists (myself included) and it was not an issue. A well run troop is there to teach you life skills and morals to live your life by, like not torturing POWs, not force or encourage you to adhere to a religion.

I would be more fearful of a poorly run or Mormon troop myself, but attending a meeting or two and talking to the Scoutmaster/Assistant Scoutmaster will definitely let you scope it out and get a reading before you give your son a choice of getting involved. I would not deny my own son the opportunity I had in scouting assuming the BSA makes it through the next decade, since it definitely helped me form into the accepting, caring & compassionate person I am today.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#79

Post by kbart »

radicsge wrote: post #17
Spearchucker wrote: post #5

I was a boy scout in the late '70s and early '80s. Loved it, and although I was too young to care at the time, my son will probably not join because religion. Yes, they have a "non-religious promise" now, but you're still subjected to it. I don't care for it, and my son will (like I did) get to choose for himself but (unlike me) without being forcibly subjected to the propaganda. All that said, scouting has changed s…

Not sure it make sense. How to choose/decide about religion (or the opposite) without knowing about it. It's like refuse to send him to elemental art/math/chemistry class until he choose the university himself. And the another thing, you have enjoyed it (as a whole package), yet you deny this from your child? Sounds a bit strange.

Knowing about it and be a subject to it differs quite a bit.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#80

Post by madaxe_again »

mkrum wrote: post #23
Artoemius wrote: post #3

It might be one of the cases where correlation doesn't imply causation. For an objective study, we would need to assign children to groups randomly. Otherwise, we can miss various obscure selection effects. (For example, if children who are more likely to be scouts, are also likely to be from a particular socioeconomic background).

Not only from a socioeconomic point of view, but I would guess that having parents who are involved enough in a child's life to pay for, drive to, and participate in these types of activities is more likely to be a source of a "mental health boost"

This is what I was going to say - suspect this stems from having parents or guardians who cared enough to get you involved in such an activity, and the environment that suggests, rather than scouting directly.
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