DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter • Hacker News Board

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#71

Post by EugeneOZ » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 5:54 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #56

EugeneOZ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as illustration: after November 8 a lot of russians were celebrating - just because of hope that relations with US will be warmer. Really, people don't want cold war or any other war.

Warmer and on their terms; attempts to have closer relations without Putin, and with other US leaders seem to have both been less well-received.

taxi drivers, making discounts for clients with Trump's photo, weren't thinking about their terms. They just want peace.

To clarify: I'm not fan of Trump, but I glad to see such reaction.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#72

Post by Ftuuky » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

Raed667 wrote: post #23

In school we have studied a scenario that is exactly like this: "The effects of IoT security on utility and daily life functions" From hacking boilers to stop water delivery, to locking people outside their doors. The next few years will be very fun for "infoSec" people.

Something like this could happen too: https://twitter.com/ariellejjohnson/status/79470832530046566...

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#73

Post by Freestyler_3 » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #70

mrweasel wrote: post #17

Regardless of the reason, deliberate targetting, accidental "drive by DDoS" or bad configuration, the question that remains is "Why is the heating dependent on being online?" It is completely reasonable if the heat system every so often "phones home", so report on usage, but it shouldn't actually stop working, if the network connection isn't available. You can blame, DDoS, hackers, network outages, the Russians, I do…

> the question that remains is "Why is the heating dependent on being online?" 1) So they can bill you. 2) Bad design Billing is almost always the reason if the design is sane. And it's always a PITA. Bad design is self-explanatory. Most programmers think in terms of features rather than function . I have this discussion every day with people creating battery operated IoT devices. Me: "What is your most important fun…

Mostly bad design, it saves lots of money when developing and rolling out.

They didn't even have a firewall.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#74

Post by pimeys » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 7:17 PM UTC

EugeneOZ wrote: post #53

strictnein wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked for a Finnish company and I concur. They frequently bring up how they beat the Germans and the Russians in WW2. And how Finnish vodka is the best. And how it sucks that the world's most popular sauna heater is made in Sweden, because Finnish sauna heaters are superior.

Well, it doesn't prove that russians don't like Finns, maybe just Finns don't like russians. Sad to hear, but, looks like our government's propaganda works. And Finnish vodka is really the best ;)

I have many Russian friends and they're intelligent and nice people in general. The info war and traumas from the winter war still exist though and we really don't like Russia as a country, except the neo-nazis who think Putin's actions against minorities should be supported and many of them think that Russia should conquer Finland so we wouldn't have such a liberal government.

Of course after Trump, the general feeling about US is pretty close what we think about Russia...

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#75

Post by lisivka » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

EugeneOZ wrote: post #66

geoka9 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess when Russia tried to invade them back in 1939 there was no referendum and it wasn't a whole nation's decision either. Heck, you could even deem the Russian people friendly towards the Finns (they were trying to free their Finnish comrades from the capitalist yoke!). I don't think it made the Finns any happier though. What I CAN see is the glee on the Russian discussion boards whenever an incident like that is…

You will not believe, but yes! Putin is fan of Stalin and they both use internal and external propaganda. And it may sound wild or ridiculous for you, but there is official agency where people get salary for writing comments on forums, youtube, facebook and other well-known public services. There was even article about it in some western newspaper. And reaction of people: 2 guys threw molotov cocktails to the window…

So, I assume, when our army will start to bomb Moscow to throw out Putin regime, you will be happy?

You said you are OK with event, which can cause a war, and you dislike Putin.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#76

Post by lisivka » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #62

reitanqild wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Some say Russia is the only neighbouring country Norway hasn't been at war with, although I cannot think of a time when we ever fought against the Finnish either. That said, no reason not to be careful after what has happened in Ukraine etc we should of course be careful: Russia can wipe out half of Norway just by turning around while they sleep.

Frankly i think that oversimplifies what happened in Ukraine. The civil war may or may not have been part of the plan, but the primary Russian goal was to secure their supply route to the Black Sea naval port. A port that Ukraine had been happily leasing to the Russians since the dismantling of the USSR. There are no such reason for Russia to enter Norway. They already have Murmansk as a naval port, and they export w…

There is no civil war in Ukraine.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#77

Post by lisivka » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC

robryk wrote: post #68

digi_owl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a combo of cost cutting and safety requirements?

What kind of incident could safety regulations be trying to prevent by forbidding a furnace from operating when remote control is unreachable?

Blow of tank, fire.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#78

Post by EugeneOZ » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 7:58 PM UTC

pimeys wrote: post #74

EugeneOZ wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it doesn't prove that russians don't like Finns, maybe just Finns don't like russians. Sad to hear, but, looks like our government's propaganda works. And Finnish vodka is really the best ;)

I have many Russian friends and they're intelligent and nice people in general. The info war and traumas from the winter war still exist though and we really don't like Russia as a country, except the neo-nazis who think Putin's actions against minorities should be supported and many of them think that Russia should conquer Finland so we wouldn't have such a liberal government. Of course after Trump, the general feel…

See - we have idiots on both sides :)

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#79

Post by robryk » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 9:22 PM UTC

lisivka wrote: post #77

robryk wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of incident could safety regulations be trying to prevent by forbidding a furnace from operating when remote control is unreachable?

Blow of tank, fire.

There are other methods to prevent such occurrences: furnaces have "flame out of bounds" sensors and/or chimney flow sensors: this is very good at preventing the furnace from starting a fire of its own.

If there's already a fire present, whether furnace decides to stop operating or not is usually irrelevant (you can get a gas leak from a damaged furnace even if it's off). I do not see why _remote_ control should be able to prevent a fire from starting: whatever is remotely controlling this furnace doesn't have more data than the furnace itself.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#80

Post by lisivka » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 9:30 PM UTC

robryk wrote: post #79

lisivka wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blow of tank, fire.

There are other methods to prevent such occurrences: furnaces have "flame out of bounds" sensors and/or chimney flow sensors: this is very good at preventing the furnace from starting a fire of its own. If there's already a fire present, whether furnace decides to stop operating or not is usually irrelevant (you can get a gas leak from a damaged furnace even if it's off). I do not see why _remote_ control should be a…

So, circumvent your furnace control logic to burn at max rate when it receives no commands from it remote controller, then go somewhere for a week. Engineers are stupid people, you know.