Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

sheddingbikes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 114 posts

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#71

Post by _b8r0 »

Interesting. Having read the PDF I think this could do well. I did think that it was unfairly skewed toward Macs. I know Zed mentioned in the PDF that later versions would be more Windows/Linux friendly - I guess there's just a need to try to keep things as agnostic as possible to minimise the effort. I'd be happy to help with the Windows side where I can if there's alternative stuff that needs writing for what is likely to be the majority of users.

It might also be worth considering using PyGame later on if there's an interest in creating more visual programs. I know that it's important to maintain the interest of people, that's why a lot of the awesome 80s type and run books would include graphical programs. Again, I'm happy to contribute where I can.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#73

Post by Pistos2 »

DannoHung wrote: post #40
iamdave wrote: post #32

This is the way absolutely every book that aims to teach people a language should be written. When Ruby on Rails hit it big, I picked up two books and couldn't get past the first two chapters. Why? The first two chapters were filler chapters. The history of ruby, the history of taking application languages and putting them on the web. An entire quarter of the book in pages was full of back-story, it was chapter 4 bef…

Okay, but why were you trying to learn Ruby from a book about a web programming framework for Ruby? Did you try reading the PickAxe or Why's Poignant Guide?

He didn't say he was specifically trying to learn Ruby.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#74

Post by nhebb »

paulitex wrote: post #12
nhebb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, the exercises do look like their targeted to the total beginner, but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2. I say "so far" in hopes that he eventually gets enough exercises in the book that the material included now is just a small part of the finished work. Doh! VB index alert: The exercises are 0-based and the steps are 1-based. ;-)

"but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2." Off the top of my head, I know at least 3 Universities (near me in Canada: UBC, SFU, UofC) that have recently switched to Python as the first language taught/used in their CS programs. There is a real demand for intro Python books. And IMHO Python is a pretty good first language.

So apparently the smart money finds out what I'm betting on and bets the other way. :-)

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#75

Post by grncdr »

zedshaw wrote: post #49
fretlessjazz wrote: post #18

"If a programmer tells you to use vim or emacs tell them no. These editors are for when you are a better programmer. All you need right now is an editor that lets you put text into a file." Ha! When I started to program, everyone told me the opposite. After weeks of head scratching and spending more time learning editors than coding, I secretly switched to Pico. But man could I use the hell out of Pico.

I'm actually looking for a simple editor that works on all platforms, doesn't look totally like ass, and is easy to use. I'll then change things up so people just install that. Basically a GUI cross platform pico would be perfect.

I second gedit, just installed it on my Mac, and it doesn't look like complete ass. (It does however use GTK for file open dialogs etc. so that might put other people off?)

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#76

Post by swaroop »

zedshaw wrote: post #53
motter wrote: post #39

I'd like to hear his opinion on "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist", which (approximately) matches his description of a beginner's book, and uses python for the examples. http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/

I think it's great. It will be in the list of books to read next for sure, especially since it's free.

Zed, I've written a beginner's book called 'A Byte of Python', and I'd like to know your opinion about it - http://www.swaroopch.com/notes/Python

FWIW, the background is that it has been under a Creative Commons license since 2004, it has had about half a million downloads/readers (guesstimate, of course), is used as a text book for introductory programming courses in at least 8 universities worldwide, and has been translated to at least 5-6 languages by volunteers.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#77

Post by kingkilr »

gtt wrote: post #67
isthisaquestion wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gedit is cross-platform and pretty easy to use. I never tried the windows port though. It doesn't look totally native on OSX but it's not bad.

windows version as good as the linux one

It's my primary editor on all 3 platforms, I'd definitely recommend it for beginners.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#78

Post by overgard »

I really like this idea of learning things the "hard" way, of doing something and then figuring out why without a lot of handholding. I think it works for beginners, but it also works equally well for experts -- for instance if I'm learning a new language I'd rather just do something and figure out why it's acting in the way it is, rather than read through a chapter explaining it.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#79

Post by zedshaw »

codyrobbins wrote: post #68
petercooper wrote: post #65

FWIW, the concept of getting people programming ASAP in order to learn has been sort of poo-pooed by findings in the ACM: http://cacm.acm.org/blogs/blog-cacm/45725-how-we-teach-intro... I'm on the fence. I see the music-style logic to picking things up and working on the practical stuff right away, but, hey, studies are studies.

Wow, thanks for posting that link. I’m really glad the ‘learning by doing’ methodology is under some scrutiny, because it’s not the way I learn at all. For what it’s worth, if I had come across the draft of Zed’s book when I was first learning to program, I suspect I would have hated it, very quickly gotten bored, and dropped it in favor of something else. I can’t stand being presented with the absolute minimal amoun…

You already think like a programmer, probably you were either born or raised that way. For example, you already have an attention to detail which is why you demand solid details about every possible thing before you feel as if you understand it.

I actually learn some things like you, but I had to learn to not learn this way when I started studying music. There's actually a lot of things you just cannot learn by first having all the details. Insisting that everything be presented this way will prevent you from learning a vast array of topics that require an intuitive artistic sense or require non-verbal expression.

I would say that if you read this book as a beginner and found it boring then you should move on to the books I'll mention as the next books to read. I would also say that you should try a few other ways to learn something. It'd do you some good to learn something without having to completely explain it first.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#80

Post by Flow »

zedshaw wrote: post #49
fretlessjazz wrote: post #18

"If a programmer tells you to use vim or emacs tell them no. These editors are for when you are a better programmer. All you need right now is an editor that lets you put text into a file." Ha! When I started to program, everyone told me the opposite. After weeks of head scratching and spending more time learning editors than coding, I secretly switched to Pico. But man could I use the hell out of Pico.

I'm actually looking for a simple editor that works on all platforms, doesn't look totally like ass, and is easy to use. I'll then change things up so people just install that. Basically a GUI cross platform pico would be perfect.

Won't Idle work for that?
Post reply on HN