Whatever happened to Japanese laptops? • Hacker News Board

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#71

Post by Zarel » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:13 AM UTC

EdSharkey wrote: post #23

bluedino wrote: post #7

I thought this would be about the tiny models like the Toshiba Libretto

My drinking buddy in the early 2000's carried his libretto around in big baggy jeans pockets so he could pull it out and code on his game any time he was out and about and had a free moment. I always thought that was so 1337.

I used to code on the Voyage 200, which also fit in my coat pockets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-92_series#Voyage_200

My fingers were small enough to touch type on those keys.

After I grew out of TI-BASIC, I always wanted something like that for computer programming, too, but I never managed to find one.

A laptop in regular-laptop shape that was 6" or so would be ideal for me. I've also been considering a phone/phablet with a keyboard case or keyboard cover, but none seem to be touch-typable. :/

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#72

Post by Tepix » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:16 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #25

mc32 wrote: post #8

One thing likely contributed to their downfall was US manufactures moved operations overseas and many Japanese manufacturers kept production in Japan making them expensive to the Us market --that and Apple and others catching up in terms of "sleekness" and aesthetics. People would buy Vaios despite poor hardware because they were thin and looked cool.

> that and Apple and others catching up in terms of "sleekness" and aesthetics. Wasn't Apple always ahead of the Japanese laptops in terms of sleekness and aesthetics?

No. I remember my wife bought a Sony Vaio N-505 back in 2000. An amazing machine with a magnesium case, very thin and very lightweight. Only the 10.4" screen was pretty crappy (but they all were back then).

Apple had the Powerbook G4 at that time which was a very high-end machine but much much bulkier of course.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#73

Post by chemmail » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:18 AM UTC

jcrawfordor wrote: post #56

themodelplumber wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mcirowaves have built in toast oven in one unit, and it works amazingly well I had one in my apartment outside Nagoya in 1996. Still can't believe I have never seen one in the states. I wonder if they just can't justify the potential marketing friction.

These are on sale at WalMart in the US. Indo think they're rather new there though.

Will have to look out for it! Also stationary is amazing in Japan. They have Pilot Friction erasable pens that erase perfectly and writes amazing. Its been popular there over 10 years and barely a blip here in the US. You can actually find them at depotmax.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#74

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:48 AM UTC

benzesandbetter wrote: post #54

In the early 2000's Japan was way ahead in the Sub-notebook market. As subnotebooks and tablets have come into popularity and wide availability worldwide, this arbitrage opportunity has narrowed significantly. In 2007, I picked up a Panasonic R6 (10" LetsNote/toughbook). It was a great little machine, and I ran both Windows and Debian on it. The keyboard was a bit cramped, and the circular trackpad was pretty lame, b…

> The keyboard is both english and Japanese

So, Japanese, then? Or does it have English labels on the modifier keys?

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#75

Post by notoothpaste » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:49 AM UTC

dba7dba wrote: post #64

notoothpaste wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what their manufacturing processes are like, such that they could accommodate this kind of flexibility.

It was probably more like having some engineers and guys in shop/factory work weekend to meet the demand, on top of what they were already supposed to do.

In order to create a prototype with a port in a different location, they would need, at the very least, to produce a one-off motherboard PCB, and a one-off injection molded case. That they could justify doing so to produce near production quality results for a small order either indicates impressive manufacturing flexibility, or an inefficient manufacturing process.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#76

Post by lisivka » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:51 AM UTC

notoothpaste wrote: post #53

Spooky23 wrote: post #16

The japanese companies were pretty amazing in the commercial space. My employer had a few Fujitsu ultra portables in the circa 2007 timeframe. One of our internal customers mentioned to a salesguy that they needed a particular port in a particular location on the laptop, not expecting anything. Two weeks later, they Fedexed a loaner/prototype with the port. Really an amazing experience. We were buying 5-6 figure quan…

I wonder what their manufacturing processes are like, such that they could accommodate this kind of flexibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way

Quote:

Principle 3

    Use "pull" systems to avoid overproduction.

A method where a process signals its predecessor that more material is needed. The pull system produces only the required material after the subsequent operation signals a need for it. This process is necessary to reduce overproduction.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#77

Post by lisivka » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:55 AM UTC

notoothpaste wrote: post #75

dba7dba wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was probably more like having some engineers and guys in shop/factory work weekend to meet the demand, on top of what they were already supposed to do.

In order to create a prototype with a port in a different location, they would need, at the very least, to produce a one-off motherboard PCB, and a one-off injection molded case. That they could justify doing so to produce near production quality results for a small order either indicates impressive manufacturing flexibility, or an inefficient manufacturing process.

Their process is implemented for flexibility first, then for mass production. Look at Toyota fabric [1]. Do you see lot of advanced robots to reprogram for each new model?

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg5RlapdEtE

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#78

Post by thedaniel » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:58 AM UTC

notoothpaste wrote: post #75

dba7dba wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was probably more like having some engineers and guys in shop/factory work weekend to meet the demand, on top of what they were already supposed to do.

In order to create a prototype with a port in a different location, they would need, at the very least, to produce a one-off motherboard PCB, and a one-off injection molded case. That they could justify doing so to produce near production quality results for a small order either indicates impressive manufacturing flexibility, or an inefficient manufacturing process.

Or... that it was an option for port placement they'd already considered, and they pulled an existing prototype out of the library, which seems more likely to me.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#79

Post by notoothpaste » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 9:59 AM UTC

lisivka wrote: post #76

notoothpaste wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what their manufacturing processes are like, such that they could accommodate this kind of flexibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way Quote: Principle 3 Use "pull" systems to avoid overproduction. A method where a process signals its predecessor that more material is needed. The pull system produces only the required material after the subsequent operation signals a need for it. This process is necessary to reduce overproduction.

I too have heard of Kanban and JIT from my fellow arrogant valley douches. I would like to understand the specific manufacturing processes that make one-off products of production quality viable.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#80

Post by PebblesHD » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 10:08 AM UTC

I've always loved their[Japanese] ultraportables for as long as I can remember. Probably their prime placement in the film and television I watched growing up. I've ended up with quite a collection of them at this point, ranging from the amazing little Vaio UX through the little Vaio P up to my 12" let's note. It weighs nothing, has an i5 and tons of RAM, I'm amazed they haven't taken over the US. Not to mention its tough as bricks. They certainly have a quirky, unique charm to them.