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British Government loses Article 50 court fight

bbc.co.uk

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Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#71

Post by zimpenfish »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #24
agd wrote: post #12

For those who don't follow British politics this is very significant. - Invocation of Article 50 is likely to be delayed from Q1 as the legislation will go through parliament and the (hostile) House of Lords. - A 'hard' Brexit is less likely due to incoming amendments from remainer MPs and Lords It also increases the chances of a general election before Article 50 is invoked if the PM feels that MPs will force too ma…

MP's are in a hard place because of this. The majority of them are pro-remain, having concluded that brexit is damaging and dangerous and cannot result in a better deal. ... but they will be whipped into line by government (Tory) and party leadership (Labour) insisting that they follow the settled will of the clear majority of the people ... but the will of the people is neither settled nor a clear majority.

...and the referendum was purely advisory which means they can do whatever they wish.

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#72

Post by nicolapede »

ldjb wrote: post #59
nicolapede wrote: post #15

I think it was quite arrogant from Theresa May to decide not to involve the Parliament in the first place. People did not give a blanket mandate to her for implementing whatever she thinks Brexit means.

Parliament is involved in the Brexit process, including through the Brexit Select Committee. Politicians from across different parties will have their say on how the UK leaves the EU. However, the British people have voted to leave the EU, and it would be an affront to democracy if the will of the people were denied by Parliament. It would be unacceptable for Parliament to vote against triggering Article 50, so why e…

The referendum gave the What. Parliament would give the How and When.

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#73

Post by gpderetta »

koolba wrote: post #61
midgetjones wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish they'd stop calling it a "clear majority". I'm not sure when 52-48 was ever such.

> I really wish they'd stop calling it a "clear majority". I'm not sure when 52-48 was ever such. It's a majority though. If they wanted to have a higher threshold for the vote (say 60%) they should have done as much when writing the referendum.

As the referendum was only advisory in the first place, what the threshold would actually means?

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#74

Post by alphadevx »

jbb555 wrote: post #67

Ultimately a clear majority of the UK population is in favor of leave. This has increased since the vote as the lies of the remain campaign proved not to be true. Much of the remain support is concentrated in a handful of London consistences meaning that almost all english MPs have a significant majority of leave supporters. They have to vote for that or they won't be selected in a future election. In any case. If th…

> This has increased since the vote as the lies of the remain campaign proved not to be true.

Just curious as an outsider, what lies are those?

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#75

Post by Zelmor »

Isn't it a well known fact for everyone by now that leaving the EU would have dire consequences to England? Losing the shared market access, researchers not being allowed into shared EU projects, the European Stock Exchange moving from London OR London leaving the UK, Scotland leaving the UK, maybe even N. Ireland leaving as well to unify the island (erin go bragh by the way!). How would it be in the interest for anyone to go on chasing this rabid dog that is Brexit?

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#76

Post by pmyteh »

cmdkeen wrote: post #52
aembleton wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But she can't just call an election without agreement from 67% of MPs due to the fixed term parliament act.

That's the thing about Parliament being Sovereign it could pass an Act saying "notwithstanding the Fixed Term Parliament Act the next election is on X" and call an election. It could also just repeal the Fixed Term Act.

Parliament can indeed do that, but it would require either the consent of the House of Lords or the application of the Parliament Acts (which is a multi-year process).

My suspicion is that the Lords (where the government has no in-built majority) would vote down the new Act on the basis that it was an abuse of process.

The backup option is a German-style 'technical' declaration of no-confidence, where the Prime Minister whips their MPs to vote no-confidence in the government for the express purpose of triggering the Fixed Term Parliament Act's clause. This would be effective, but would have a (relatively small) political cost in public perception.

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#78

Post by pavlov »

I can't believe the UK government allowed this to happen. They went ahead with the referendum without ever explaining what Leave means.

They should have drafted the Leave plan first, with very specific dates, and have people vote on that. "Do you want Britain to invoke Article 50 by 31 Dec 2016?"

That would have been the responsible thing to do. (If anyone argues that you can't have a referendum on such a specifically worded question -- well, if the electorate doesn't understand even the basics, is it a good idea to have a referendum in the first place?)

Cameron must be one of the least competent political leaders of our time. Maybe the Venezuelan ruling party could hire him as a consultant.

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#79

Post by danielsamuels »

jbb555 wrote: post #67

Ultimately a clear majority of the UK population is in favor of leave. This has increased since the vote as the lies of the remain campaign proved not to be true. Much of the remain support is concentrated in a handful of London consistences meaning that almost all english MPs have a significant majority of leave supporters. They have to vote for that or they won't be selected in a future election. In any case. If th…

> Ultimately a clear majority of the UK population is in favor of leave. This has increased since the vote as the lies of the remain campaign proved not to be true.

I would argue that the opposite is true.

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#80

Post by Tomte »

ldjb wrote: post #59
nicolapede wrote: post #15

I think it was quite arrogant from Theresa May to decide not to involve the Parliament in the first place. People did not give a blanket mandate to her for implementing whatever she thinks Brexit means.

Parliament is involved in the Brexit process, including through the Brexit Select Committee. Politicians from across different parties will have their say on how the UK leaves the EU. However, the British people have voted to leave the EU, and it would be an affront to democracy if the will of the people were denied by Parliament. It would be unacceptable for Parliament to vote against triggering Article 50, so why e…

You're already anticipating a "remain" vote by parliament.

That's not on the table, so far. Parliament wants to be involved, not necessarily kill Brexit.

You can come back with that argument if and when Parliament actually tries to stop Brexit.

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