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Eve: Programming designed for humans

programming.witheve.com

71–80 of 401 posts

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your edit sure won't help anything, the aggression is just uncalled for. Ok bud, shall we call an emergency UN meeting to discuss my 'aggression'?

I'm far from taking it personally, so no need from my end. What do you hope to accomplish with the antagonistic tone?

To weed out all of the ostensibly sensitive turds and add them to the turd list.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#72
post #2

Hi All! Many of the folks here have been following us for a long time and we're really excited to finally pull everything together to show you all where our research has taken us. Eve is still very early [1], but it shows a lot of promise and I think this community especially will be interested in the ideas we've put together. As many of you were also big Light Table supporters, we wanted to talk about Eve's relation…

How does this relate to Jetbrains' MPS (meta programming system)?

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#73
post #63

How is this significantly different from something like Light Table? (edit: didn't realize it was build by the people who built Light Table). It feels like a rehash of that + Python notebooks, with a bit of Xcode's playground thrown in. Problem is that despite those tools being available, I literally never use them. Ever. Nor do I have a need for them. I kind of like the idea of being able to find bits of code in a l…

That's fair. We don't talk about it in here because there was already way too much to discuss, but we've done a few non-trivial things in Eve. All of the inspector interactions are actually written in Eve [1], as is the program analyzer that provides the intelligence to make it work [2]. An important thing to keep in mind as well is that Eve does a lot with very little. 10kLoC of Eve would implement most systems twic…

And that's fair too. Honestly I'm happy to see where you guys go and reevaluate whether or not I'd used it as you guys make progress. There are definitely some very interesting innovations in what you're doing, and hopefully that point came across in my comments (despite some initial scoffing on my part).

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#74
post #60
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if version 0.2.0 doesn't fit your enterprise software needs it probably isn't very interesting.

Actually I cab think of many Enterprise uses for this... most users in an enterprise just want to build small apps which manipulate shared data

Parent is being sarcastic.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#75
post #2

Hi All! Many of the folks here have been following us for a long time and we're really excited to finally pull everything together to show you all where our research has taken us. Eve is still very early [1], but it shows a lot of promise and I think this community especially will be interested in the ideas we've put together. As many of you were also big Light Table supporters, we wanted to talk about Eve's relation…

Hi, I apologize if this is off topic but I just thought you should know the site does not display properly in my browser.

Maybe this is just an unsupported use case but I think it's because the browser window isn't wide enough so the text on the left gets cut off. I have my browser window filling up half of the screen.

EDIT: works now!

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#76
post #2

Hi All! Many of the folks here have been following us for a long time and we're really excited to finally pull everything together to show you all where our research has taken us. Eve is still very early [1], but it shows a lot of promise and I think this community especially will be interested in the ideas we've put together. As many of you were also big Light Table supporters, we wanted to talk about Eve's relation…

So your defense of literate program gives, as a defense, what I would think of as an attack on literate programming: Take this strawman for instance, how could you find the bug in the following code without the accompanying comment? // Print every other line of the array to the console for (var i = 0; i Because the problem with that is that now you have two competing sources of authority -- the comment, and the code.…

Wait, what? The code is a translation of a requirement to an implementation. The comment describes the requirement. The only problem with competing sources of authority is when the comment disagrees with the real requirements of the programmer/business/whatever.

As another example, what if it were a method name instead of a comment?

  function printEveryOtherLine(myStringArray) {
    for (var i = 0; i 
Is your argument that the method name is incorrect because the code dictates a different behavior?

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#77

  Instead of thousands of debugger options, let's have a magic tool where you click on the thing that's going wrong.
There are reasons for the thousands of options though! Like, "debug this specific object" or "breakpoint when this condition is satisfied" exist as primitives already; there's more complexity there than just "what is the data backing this UI element". If Eve has indeed managed to get away from needing them, that is laudable, but it would be achieved by the full set of things you might want to do being blindingly obvious, not "magic" special-cases for "I was expecting something here and I don't see it"

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#79
post #30

I think there's potentially a lot of ways we can improve our programming environments. I like moon shots, people willing to explore new ways that are unconventional, approaching problems in different ways. I've followed Light Table and have been looking forward to seeing what Chris and friends come up with for Eve. That said, this is feeling very grandiose. I'd like to understand more clearly where they see Eve being…

Check out our followup on that : http://programming.witheve.com/deepdives/whateveis.html

1) Eve is amazing at graph algorithms, not so much at writing quicksort. At the same time, you don't need to write quicksort in Eve - it has all of the things you'd get from something like a SQL database. In general, anything requiring strict sequential order will be just ok right now, but it turns out actually very few things do.

2) sure and we have written some of it in Eve, check some of my other comments for links :)

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't give the connotation that it's "designed for humans". Perhaps if they could give a clear indication of what that means other than "it's in a word document", I'd be more inclined to look at it a little harder.

Wow dude, you're really salty.

No, he's absolutely right; it's not clear at all how this is supposed to be human-friendly. I think it's incredibly hard to read and looks like it's going to be an unmaintainable mess by throwing random APIs like Slack into the standard library. I wouldn't say I'm salty, but I'm certainly confused as to why this is what it claims to be, rather than just a very specific beginner web dev language.
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