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US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

bbc.com

71–80 of 139 posts

Re: US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

#71
post #53

Why did Note 7's have this problem? I assume the fault is entirely in the battery (?), so did Samsung change how the batteries were manufactured this year? Does the Note 7 have power demands that mean they can't go back to tried and tested battery manufacture? (Hoping there are EE's or manufacturing people here that might have some educated guesses)

This is the best writeup I've seen of how this happened: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-18/samsung-c... tldr plus my speculation: * Leaked iPhone 7 specs made Samsung shoot for the moon with Note 7 design * Specs designed in boardroom called for Note 7 be lighter, shorter and narrower than iPhone 7+ but also have a larger screen, a significantly larger battery and a lot of internal room taken up by t…

> * Specs designed in boardroom called for Note 7 be lighter, shorter and narrower than iPhone 7+ but also have a larger screen, a significantly larger battery ...

The Note series has always had a better display to size ratio and a larger battery. I don't see why this particular iteration should all the sudden have problems with that.

For reference:

    Galaxy Note 5
    153.2 x 76.1 x 7.6 mm (6.03 x 3.00 x 0.30 in)
    Weight	171 g (6.03 oz)
    Display 5.7 inches (~75.9% screen-to-body ratio)
    Battery Non-removable Li-Po 3000 mAh battery

    iphone 6s+
    Dimensions	158.2 x 77.9 x 7.3 mm (6.23 x 3.07 x 0.29 in)
    Weight	192 g (6.77 oz)
    Display 5.5 inches (~67.7% screen-to-body ratio)
    Battery Non-removable Li-Ion 2750 mAh battery (10.45 Wh)

Re: US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

#72
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So carry an empty bottle/tumbler/thermos and fill it up at the water fountain?

You're not allowed to do so, at least when I tried taking an empty bottle it was confiscated (Munich Airport, EDDM).

Strange, I've been traveling with a 500cc refillable water bottle forever, never had any trouble (Germany, Netherlands, East Asia). Maybe it helps that my bottle is designed to be refilled, and not just an empty bottle from the supermarket.

Re: US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

#73

I doubt Samsung will try to find another sales channel for them in North America. Going back to the feature-phone era, one of their most important advantages over their handset competitors has been their loyalty to the big phone companies. Doing an end-run around them to sell directly to their customers seems...unseemly. So what happens to all of these Note 7's? Do they just get buried in a ditch somewhere? From read…

They are probably still frantically figuring out how to fix the problem and will eventually have a replacement replacement. Then they can refurbish the existing ones.

Re: US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

#74
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly sure the new OLED displays from Samsung can produce extremely accurate colors. I don't remember exactly where I read so, perhaps AnandTech, but I believe the Samsung displays were considered some of the most accurate smartphone displays prior to the new iPhones. I should note that for some reason it seems like most smartphone manufacturers, basically everyone aside from Apple, way oversaturate their displa…

I absolutely love the deep blacks and the fact that when I have the phone on low brightness using a dark theme it barely produces any ambient light Yup - completely agree. When I got my Tab S, I knew that the exynos 5420 was grossly inferior to the a8x in the Air 2, but I wanted my tablet for watching videos in bed at night. I was right; the 5420 is execrable and makes web browsing very painful compared to the Air 2…

Bedtime browsing is indeed a huge advantage. I can finally browse HN in bed without pissing off the person trying to sleep next to me. Now Google just needs to get serious about system wide dark themes, as well as dark themes for stock apps, and I'll be happy.

I'm sure with the large screen on a tablet this is even more of a benefit.

Re: US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

#75
post #59
post #4

I don't know how fatal this will be for Samsung next time they go out and sell phones; but people have got a taste of buying from a company that doesn't have any sales or customer rep centers easily accessible where people can go and complaint. I really hope it doesn't turn out to be fatal for them but I also hope it breaks the Samsung monopoly over Android and let brands like LG, HTC shine.

> it breaks the Samsung monopoly over Android Is there a Samsung monopoly over Android? Apparently Samsung sells about 25% of smartphones https://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-market-share.jsp and 85% of sold smartphones are Android... so certainly not a monopoly.

I think the parent comment was likely referring to Samsung's perceived dominance in the US market. I'm not sure of the US marketshare breakdowns, although it wouldn't surprise me if Samsung had more than 25%, but I think in terms of mindshare in the US it basically boils down to Apple or Samsung. This is probably particularly true for higher end phones.

Re: US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

#76
post #7

It still seems to be OK to bring Note 7s on airplanes. Not bottles of water, though, that's too dangerous.

Last time I was on an airplane the crew disallowed all Note 7s being turned on or being charged. I'm not sure if it was seriously enforced, but it was announced.

Re: US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

#77
post #59
post #4

I don't know how fatal this will be for Samsung next time they go out and sell phones; but people have got a taste of buying from a company that doesn't have any sales or customer rep centers easily accessible where people can go and complaint. I really hope it doesn't turn out to be fatal for them but I also hope it breaks the Samsung monopoly over Android and let brands like LG, HTC shine.

> it breaks the Samsung monopoly over Android Is there a Samsung monopoly over Android? Apparently Samsung sells about 25% of smartphones https://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-market-share.jsp and 85% of sold smartphones are Android... so certainly not a monopoly.

Looking at the Play Store dev console for an general public app with a very large user base : out of the 10 most used models, 7 come for Samsung.

It also hurt to see that. The experience on a Samsung phone is not that great :-/

Re: US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

#79
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely love the deep blacks and the fact that when I have the phone on low brightness using a dark theme it barely produces any ambient light Yup - completely agree. When I got my Tab S, I knew that the exynos 5420 was grossly inferior to the a8x in the Air 2, but I wanted my tablet for watching videos in bed at night. I was right; the 5420 is execrable and makes web browsing very painful compared to the Air 2…

Bedtime browsing is indeed a huge advantage. I can finally browse HN in bed without pissing off the person trying to sleep next to me. Now Google just needs to get serious about system wide dark themes, as well as dark themes for stock apps, and I'll be happy. I'm sure with the large screen on a tablet this is even more of a benefit.

I found the app Twilight (similar to f.lux on the desktop) to be very useful. And it doesn't require root.

Re: US carriers halt Samsung Note 7 sales and replacements

#80
post #71
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best writeup I've seen of how this happened: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-18/samsung-c... tldr plus my speculation: * Leaked iPhone 7 specs made Samsung shoot for the moon with Note 7 design * Specs designed in boardroom called for Note 7 be lighter, shorter and narrower than iPhone 7+ but also have a larger screen, a significantly larger battery and a lot of internal room taken up by t…

> * Specs designed in boardroom called for Note 7 be lighter, shorter and narrower than iPhone 7+ but also have a larger screen, a significantly larger battery ... The Note series has always had a better display to size ratio and a larger battery. I don't see why this particular iteration should all the sudden have problems with that. For reference: Galaxy Note 5 153.2 x 76.1 x 7.6 mm (6.03 x 3.00 x 0.30 in) Weight 1…

> I don't see why this particular iteration should all the sudden have problems with that.

Well there's larger and there's a lot larger. This particular iteration increased the gap substantially.

3500 mAh (GN7) >> 3000 mAH (GN5) ~ 2950 mAH (i7+) > 2750 mAH (i6S+)

Below article offers speculation either way: that both the design itself and push for larger batteries was at fault and/or that it is simply a manufacturing error although they seem like two sides of the same coin -- at the end of the day you can't get around the fact that more batteries simply take up more internal space and the larger that 'more' is the harder the engineering problem is. Giving the engineers a hard design problem and then not giving them the corresponding necessary time to develop and test their designs is ultimately what's responsible for the defect.

http://phys.org/news/2016-09-galaxy-recall-stronger-batterie...

South Korean experts suggested Samsung may have been so ambitious with the Note 7's design that it compromised safety.

"There was no choice but to make the separator (between positive and negative anodes) thin because of the battery capacity," said Lee Sang-yong, a professor at Ulsan National Institute of Science and Technology who worked more than a decade at LG Chem, a leading lithium battery maker. Thicker separators can improve safety but will not necessarily prevent all overheating issues, he said.

Doh Chil-Hoon, head of the state-run Korea Electrotechnology Research Institute's battery research division, said that based on the limited information provided by Samsung, he believes the push to increase battery power was part of the problem.

"Even with a small manufacturing mistake, if there had been enough elements to ensure safety, it would not explode," Doh said. "It is a roundabout way of admitting weak safety."

...

[Wayne Lam, an industry analyst at IHS Markit Technology] said he thinks the Note 7 battery problem resulted from weak controls in manufacturing, not a poor or unsafe design.

A spokeswoman at iFixit, which publishes repair guides for electronic gadgets, offered a similar view. "We don't think any internal design changes in the Note 7 are responsible for the exploding batteries—more likely just a manufacturing defect," IFixit's Kay-Kay Clapp said in an email.

Apple has tweaked hardware and software it developed itself to make iPhones use power more efficiently, while Samsung has increased the capacity of the batteries in its phones.

That can be done without increasing size by adjusting components or changing the production process, Lam said.

"You have two different trajectories, with Samsung packing in more energy density, versus Apple trying to trim it down by optimizing everything else," he said, adding that the two rivals are "constantly locked in this arms race of improving and one-upping."

Note though that those comments come before the replacements started exploding, something that implicates a deeper design flaw than just the battery production.

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