How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016 • Hacker News Board

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#71

Post by kraftman » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

marrs wrote: post #65

In my experience, the developers who fall into this trap of despair almost always do so because they aren't consciously choosing what tools to use; instead they are letting the tools choose them. They see job descriptions demanding AngularJS or ReactJS and they think that they must learn it, or someone posts an article here and they don't want to feel left behind. Choose a library or tool because it improves your dev…

So what do you do about jobs asking for Angular/React experience? Just tell them you have none because you haven't needed to use them yet? Or avoid those jobs? (There are a lot)

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#72

Post by talmand » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

jbrauer wrote: post #48

TamDenholm wrote: post #6

I'm a web dev, been doing this 11 years. But i totally feel past it, granted i code less and less nowadays so i havent kept up with new technologies. I've hired people that are much better at web dev than me and let them accomplish a task with pretty much whatever tech they want to use, because i believe you shouldn't constrict a developer if you dont have to. Even for a simple app that it'd take me 20 - 30 hours for…

> I still feel like a bad coder because i'm not doing it their way. :( I've only been at it for about 2-3 years, and I must say, I feel this exact same way. Started on the LAMP stack in school and now I know nothing because what I know is "uncool" and outdated since MEAN and all of the encompassing JS libraries have become popular. I caved and started to dabble in MEAN (even though I haven't perfected LAMP by a long…

>> now I know nothing because what I know is "uncool"

You want to know what's "uncool" around here for me? Wanting to markup a table with table elements, mostly for the accessibility benefits. I've never seen such an odd pushback. Tables are so "old" I'm told.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#73

Post by phreack » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

frigo_1337 wrote: post #60

I'm getting tired of these pointless non-specific rants. You could write an article about "How it feels to learn C++ in 2016" and make it all about the complexities of operating systems, linking, compilation, text editors and the QWERTY keyboard layout, and you'd still be as accurate. All you need to "JavaScript in 2016" (as a beginner) is a config file and one or two commands. That's it. If that's too information or…

I don't think there are any stable ones, even Jetbrains' IDEs bang their head with all the JS tools' complexity nowadays.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#74

Post by lucb1e » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

buremba wrote: post #38

"-Ever heard of Python 3?" (go to top)

People love to joke about Python 3 and I totally get it. But compared to Javascript, the mess is nowhere nearly as great.

To make python 2 code compatible with python 3, a few things need changing. For 99% of the code it's very simple, and for the 1% big changes, well, you just need to go through it and refactor some of your code. People have been postponing this but we are well on our way. During the transitioning period, new stuff gets written in py3 and old stuff still runs with the py2. People have both installed. No big deal.

Now Javascript. There is plain javascript with slight variations for every browser. There are a million frameworks, a new one that becomes majorly popular about every two years, and they all work very differently. There is no single, straight upgrade path, it's almost like using completely different languages. There is no "we are nearly done with the transition". Instead there is five new frameworks to look at every year, each of which uses five others as dependencies (angular 2's tutorial is a good example, last time I checked) and one of which will become popular next year, by which time you're outdated if you haven't tried all five. The only new thing that needs explaining in py3, as far as I know, is byte objects vs string objects. Then a few syntax changes (I think OOP changed a little bit) and you're done.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#75

Post by nkassis » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #34

peterbraden wrote: post #14

I know it's super fashionable to hate on javascript, but I'd be very interested to see a similar rant on another area of software. I'm pretty convinced this is just how the industry works.

The same kind of rant applies to things like automake, but only Javascript has this incredibly high rate of churn. Possibly it's easier to build a new toolchain than to understand someone's existing one.

That's been my annoyance too. Instead of iterating on what's there everyone makes their own thing and tries to reinvent build tools, frameworks, web components, module loaders, transpilers, package mangers etc... It is improving somewhat. Some tools seem to be winning out and clearing the orbit around them but were still in the primeval js solar system with a few planets forming.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#76

Post by pg_is_a_butt » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:50 PM UTC

frigo_1337 wrote: post #60

I'm getting tired of these pointless non-specific rants. You could write an article about "How it feels to learn C++ in 2016" and make it all about the complexities of operating systems, linking, compilation, text editors and the QWERTY keyboard layout, and you'd still be as accurate. All you need to "JavaScript in 2016" (as a beginner) is a config file and one or two commands. That's it. If that's too information or…

i'm getting tired of these ignorant hypocrites. an internal highest level browser language that requires the same toolchains and understanding as developing lowest level systems software IS SPECIFICALLY THE ENTIRE POINT.

what is a javascript "config file"? but, please... don't be "too information", moron.

you're all idiots.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#77

Post by wccrawford » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:50 PM UTC

marrs wrote: post #65

In my experience, the developers who fall into this trap of despair almost always do so because they aren't consciously choosing what tools to use; instead they are letting the tools choose them. They see job descriptions demanding AngularJS or ReactJS and they think that they must learn it, or someone posts an article here and they don't want to feel left behind. Choose a library or tool because it improves your dev…

As someone who learned Unity well enough to do game jams, then tried to switch to Unreal Engine 4 and failed to get traction for a year, I absolutely agree.

I was choosing UE4 for technical reasons and completely ignoring my comfort with the system. I was completely unable to get motivated and it absolutely brought my mood down for that year.

Then I recently picked Unity back up (and had to learn a year or more of what I'd missed, including the new UI stuff) and it feels so much better. I'm getting things made and my mood has improved quite a bit.

I haven't completely given up on UE4, but I'm no longer trying to shoe-horn it into my development. I'll wait until it really is the right tool for the job this time.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#78

Post by grif-fin » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:51 PM UTC

The picture on the top sums it up.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#79

Post by wccrawford » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:51 PM UTC

kraftman wrote: post #71

marrs wrote: post #65

In my experience, the developers who fall into this trap of despair almost always do so because they aren't consciously choosing what tools to use; instead they are letting the tools choose them. They see job descriptions demanding AngularJS or ReactJS and they think that they must learn it, or someone posts an article here and they don't want to feel left behind. Choose a library or tool because it improves your dev…

So what do you do about jobs asking for Angular/React experience? Just tell them you have none because you haven't needed to use them yet? Or avoid those jobs? (There are a lot)

I'm not the person you replied to, but I'd recommend learning them well enough to know their strengths, and then telling the interviewer that's what you did.

If you have any experience in other front end frameworks, that'll usually be enough to get you through that part of the interview anyhow.

Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016

#80

Post by zengid » Tue, Oct 04, 2016, 1:51 PM UTC

JavaScript devs have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to tools/frameworks. It is overwhelming yes, but this anecdotal ranting is counterproductive. JQuery still works excellently, and so does ReactJS if you have the patience and time to learn it. One just needs discretion when distinguishing the tools of the avant-guard from the tools of the pragmatic workhorses.