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From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

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Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#71

Post by DominikR »

gambiting wrote: post #66
jazzyk wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>public urination is a sexual offence You think people are idiots and can't distinguish between urination and groping? >And why would it be? What for? A rapist is a rapist, regardless of their nationality In the context of countries which accepted a lot of immigrants, it is to either confirm or dispel the claims that the attackers are mostly refugees from the Middle East. >You sound like a tinfoil hat aficionado to m…

>>You think people are idiots and can't distinguish between urination and groping? Well clearly so, because that's exactly how sex offender lists work in some countries, where there is no distinction made whatsoever. >>In the context of countries which accepted a lot of immigrants, it is to either confirm or dispel the claims that the attackers are mostly refugees from the Middle East. And my point is, what good does…

> And my point is, what good does it do to anyone?

If it is found that people from the Middle East rape much more than native citizens or engage more in certain types of criminal activity that is destabilising the society then there is something that we as a society can do.

We can send them all back. We can send our soldiers to guard the borders and not let anyone of them in. That's a simple solution that would work.

I would even approve of forcing those who committed crimes to work until they fully repaid their victims for all the damage they caused. After that put them on a plane send them home.

But this is not about equal treatment, the elite and the media feel the need to obfuscate because they know that people are not going to tolerate this if they knew the full extent of what is happening.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#72

Post by kafkaesq »

Yetanfou wrote: post #57
petriw wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have relatives living in the USA and the news they see from Sweden seems to make them think Sweden is descending into chaos. Their imagination had run quite wild.

Parts of Sweden are descending into chaos, some parts (Rosengård in Malmö. Biskopsgården in Göteborg, Järva in Stockholm, etc - these are the 'no-go zones') already have. The news you get to see in the US and elsewhere often comes from these areas. Elsewhere in Sweden things are more like they used to be, although the problem with 'utanförskapsområder' (areas where a parallel society takes shape, areas which are no l…

By Järva do you mean Järvastaden? Or some other part of Solna? I'm curious.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#73

Post by Yetanfou »

kafkaesq wrote: post #72
Yetanfou wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parts of Sweden are descending into chaos, some parts (Rosengård in Malmö. Biskopsgården in Göteborg, Järva in Stockholm, etc - these are the 'no-go zones') already have. The news you get to see in the US and elsewhere often comes from these areas. Elsewhere in Sweden things are more like they used to be, although the problem with 'utanförskapsområder' (areas where a parallel society takes shape, areas which are no l…

By Järva do you mean Järvastaden? Or some other part of Solna? I'm curious.

The area around 'Järvafältet'. Maybe I should have mentioned Tensta/Rinkeby/Husby et al as well but I don't think HN is interested in a detailed listing of Swedish problem-areas. Vivalla in Örebro, ... the list goes on and, unfortunately, is growing. Kronogården in Trollhättan might be next given the recent developments there.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#74

Post by kafkaesq »

Yetanfou wrote: post #73
kafkaesq wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By Järva do you mean Järvastaden? Or some other part of Solna? I'm curious.

The area around 'Järvafältet'. Maybe I should have mentioned Tensta/Rinkeby/Husby et al as well but I don't think HN is interested in a detailed listing of Swedish problem-areas. Vivalla in Örebro, ... the list goes on and, unfortunately, is growing. Kronogården in Trollhättan might be next given the recent developments there.

I'm interested, actually, but only because the core parts of Stockholm are so immaculate that it's hard to imagine the city (or its suburbs) might have any "sketchy" parts. Though I'm sure it must have its soft underbellies, if you're willing to go out a bit.

So that list should give me enough to chew on ;)

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#75

Post by gambiting »

DominikR wrote: post #71
gambiting wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>You think people are idiots and can't distinguish between urination and groping? Well clearly so, because that's exactly how sex offender lists work in some countries, where there is no distinction made whatsoever. >>In the context of countries which accepted a lot of immigrants, it is to either confirm or dispel the claims that the attackers are mostly refugees from the Middle East. And my point is, what good does…

> And my point is, what good does it do to anyone? If it is found that people from the Middle East rape much more than native citizens or engage more in certain types of criminal activity that is destabilising the society then there is something that we as a society can do. We can send them all back. We can send our soldiers to guard the borders and not let anyone of them in. That's a simple solution that would work.…

So....you would basically write special laws for a group of people. There's plenty of examples how well this approach worked throughout history(it didn't, or it worked temporarily).

Besides, I find the idea of punishing a whole group of people for the actions of the few disgusting. I don't know where you are from, but I'm from Poland originally, and especially in the 90s there was a lot of car theft in Western Europe done by Polish criminal groups - so Poles got a reputation as car thieves.

But you would have to be an absolute brainless idiot to say that all Poles are car thieves. And yet, you are proposing such solution here - assuming that "middle eastern refugee" group has more rapes - and you want to literally "send them all back". If you don't see how wrong this approach is, then I don't think I can help.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#76

Post by DominikR »

gambiting wrote: post #75
DominikR wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And my point is, what good does it do to anyone? If it is found that people from the Middle East rape much more than native citizens or engage more in certain types of criminal activity that is destabilising the society then there is something that we as a society can do. We can send them all back. We can send our soldiers to guard the borders and not let anyone of them in. That's a simple solution that would work.…

So....you would basically write special laws for a group of people. There's plenty of examples how well this approach worked throughout history(it didn't, or it worked temporarily). Besides, I find the idea of punishing a whole group of people for the actions of the few disgusting. I don't know where you are from, but I'm from Poland originally, and especially in the 90s there was a lot of car theft in Western Europe…

No, there's no need to write specific laws.

If we follow the already existing laws strictly then not a single refugee would qualify for refugee status because they passed through plenty of countries in which their lives are not threatened.

After that we can decide to financially help support refugees that are stranded in Turkey and other neighbouring countries to Syria or we can take in a certain amount that we have carefully vetted to not be dangerous to our society.

There is nothing inhumane about this approach, for each refugee we house and feed here we can house and feed 10 in the Middle East. On top of that we wouldn't have thousands of them drowning every year in the Mediterranean Sea, because very few would try if they knew that there's no chance that they'll be able to stay.

Also we would end human trafficking by enforcing our borders. To me this seems like a win-win for every side.

Regarding the Poles are thieves issue: Stealing cars and rape/murder are not even remotely comparable issues. One of them is annoying and leads to racist jokes, the other one can lead to Germans organising/revolting and starting to indiscriminately kill off anything non German on their territory.

If the government doesn't protect their citizens right to not have their wive's and children raped then people will get rid of them one way or another, usually through uncontrolled violence. I'd prefer the government to do this in a humane way by putting them on a plane and sending them home.

But it wouldn't even have been a problem to restrict the entry of those Poles who are likely to steal cars. It's just a matter of asking them on the border: "What are you planning to do here and how are you going to support your self?" If they can show that they have a job here that can sustain them then you'd have immediately filtered out many of those that just came to steal.

This is by the way allowed in the EU framework. Each EU country can send you back to your origin EU country if you cannot prove that you'll be able to sustain yourself here. Most people do not know this because it's only been used in a few cases.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#77

Post by DominikR »

gambiting wrote: post #75
DominikR wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And my point is, what good does it do to anyone? If it is found that people from the Middle East rape much more than native citizens or engage more in certain types of criminal activity that is destabilising the society then there is something that we as a society can do. We can send them all back. We can send our soldiers to guard the borders and not let anyone of them in. That's a simple solution that would work.…

So....you would basically write special laws for a group of people. There's plenty of examples how well this approach worked throughout history(it didn't, or it worked temporarily). Besides, I find the idea of punishing a whole group of people for the actions of the few disgusting. I don't know where you are from, but I'm from Poland originally, and especially in the 90s there was a lot of car theft in Western Europe…

One more thing: Why is it that you seem incapable of discussing an issue without using insults in every other sentence? This doesn't reflect well on your character.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#78

Post by Yetanfou »

kafkaesq wrote: post #74
Yetanfou wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The area around 'Järvafältet'. Maybe I should have mentioned Tensta/Rinkeby/Husby et al as well but I don't think HN is interested in a detailed listing of Swedish problem-areas. Vivalla in Örebro, ... the list goes on and, unfortunately, is growing. Kronogården in Trollhättan might be next given the recent developments there.

I'm interested, actually, but only because the core parts of Stockholm are so immaculate that it's hard to imagine the city (or its suburbs) might have any "sketchy" parts. Though I'm sure it must have its soft underbellies, if you're willing to go out a bit. So that list should give me enough to chew on ;)

The fact that central Stockholm is an oasis of order and prosperity is sometimes seen as a key factor in the developments in Sweden. Why? Because that is where a large majority of the politicians reside. Then they look out of their windows at the ordered world outside and think 'see, things are going just great in Sweden'. Meanwhile cars are burned every night just a few subway ('tunnelbana') stops away but since they never venture in these areas - which are known to be bad news - they do not see with their own eyes just what the result of some of their policies are.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#79

Post by petriw »

Yetanfou wrote: post #78
kafkaesq wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested, actually, but only because the core parts of Stockholm are so immaculate that it's hard to imagine the city (or its suburbs) might have any "sketchy" parts. Though I'm sure it must have its soft underbellies, if you're willing to go out a bit. So that list should give me enough to chew on ;)

The fact that central Stockholm is an oasis of order and prosperity is sometimes seen as a key factor in the developments in Sweden. Why? Because that is where a large majority of the politicians reside. Then they look out of their windows at the ordered world outside and think 'see, things are going just great in Sweden'. Meanwhile cars are burned every night just a few subway ('tunnelbana') stops away but since the…

Order and good living conditions is the norm in most of the country. Unless the politicians come specifically from these areas they will be accustomed to that version of Sweden regardless of where they lived most of their life. Even said areas are mostly calm except when the youths are on school breaks.

Plus, the areas you speak of vote for the left (S and V, not MP), aka the very politicians who supposedly don't understand those areas.

Tensta: http://www.val.se/val/val2014/slutresultat/R/valdistrikt/01/... Rinkeby: http://www.val.se/val/val2014/prelresultat/R/valdistrikt/01/... Husby: http://www.val.se/val/val2014/prelresultat/L/valdistrikt/01/... Vivalla: http://www.val.se/val/val2014/slutresultat/K/valdistrikt/18/...

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#80

Post by petriw »

Yetanfou wrote: post #69
petriw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandma actually lives in Biskopsgården, I go there often. Would I let my children go to school in Sjumilaskolan? Not if I could avoid it. But I also don't worry that my grandma will be harassed by the youths or the niqab ladies. Because she hasn't been. The failure in these areas is obviously a huge problem and the state has fallen short in dealing with the issues. Hopefully the court system will take the hint an…

There is also the difference of the scale of the problem, coupled with the polarisation in the media which has led to knee-jerk reactions when it comes to reporting on the issues - think of the way Dagens Nyheter (one of the bigger daily newspapers in Sweden) handled - or should I say covered up - the sexual abuse going on at the 'We are Sthlm' festivals. They sat on this news for 5 months until it was no longer tena…

This is just conspiracy stuff.

'We are Sthlm' was not judged newsworthy until the Cologne stuff. Now every potential groping at every festival is newsworthy, to the point where it's getting ridiculous.

And are you telling me the police literally has a code that singles out EVERY migrant related incident in their system? And that this would supposedly hide it from someone? Obviously that has worked out swimmingly and they really thought it would be 'secret'. Heck, coverup central DN has the very story being quoted on the Norwegian wiki article for Kode 291. Reading your replies in this thread I can understand why they'd want to keep stuff back at least until the situation settles.

Code 291, the fighting at asylum seeker housing, migrants raping migrants, the high costs of taking care of the migrants and so on... all of it has been reported on extensively in the mainstream media, heck, it's even been reported on extensively by SVT and SR.

You can literally live in the SVT/SR media bubble and know about all this.

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