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Re: Search Ads

#71

Post by thirdsun »

downandout wrote: post #13
georgyo wrote: post #3

For many many years, the number one reason people told me why they used apple products was privacy and that with apple I'm not a product. It's how they could justify paying the high premium for apple products. It would be very interesting if they get into the advertising business. Harvesting data about my usage it and using that data to charge more for ads that are well targeted. It would mean that in addition to app…

This isn't general advertising. It's only on the App Store and is based on the keywords you enter into a search in the store. They rolled this out because it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed anymore on there. Apple haters will use any new product to criticize the company, but this seems fairly benign and fills a need among developers.

If their answer to lacking discoverability is ads, I very much doubt it's a good one.

Re: Search Ads

#72

Post by georgeecollins »

HSO wrote: post #58
georgeecollins wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What distributor of software ever charged 50%? Retailers of CD-ROM games (when they were a thing) and video games do not charge that kind of markup. You are crazy if you think this is a way for Apple to do anything other than capture some of the existing market of app ads, which has been incredibly lucrative for Facebook. They have so many ways to get more information about how useful an app is likely to be for you t…

> Retailers of CD-ROM games (when they were a thing) and video games do not charge that kind of markup. Maybe not anymore but the app store was launched in 2008. If you look at the percentage a writer or a band makes from a physical book resp. studio album, 50% actually looks very optimistic. Don't forget, there were multiple layers involved, including shipping, wholesalers, retailers, etc. and everybody wanted a cut…

2008? I started making retail software in 1995 and believe me in those days stores often only took 10 - 20% of the retail price for CD-ROMs because they drove buyers into the store.

My point was that "distributors" or retailers never took 50% as the original post suggested.

If you believe that the reason desktop software has a higher anchor price point than mobile is the multiple layers, please explain why the price point on the Steam store is so much higher than the app store.

Re: Search Ads

#73

Post by hasbroslasher »

zbuttram wrote: post #32
CatMtKing wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only use the search when I know what app I'm looking for. Wouldn't that would drive up the numbers artificially -- as I had the intention of downloading the app before I began searching.

I wouldn't think so, not if they're saying a percentage of all downloads come from search, as opposed to a percentage of all searches lead to a download.

But searching is the only way (sane) people find anything on the App Store. When was the last time you browsed the store until you found the cool new app you just read about?

Whenever I use the App store, I'm on a mission. But it's also a mission to get free stuff, so maybe I'm not even part of the equation.

Re: Search Ads

#74

Post by r00fus »

hkmurakami wrote: post #35
physcab wrote: post #19

From their ad copy they say 65% of all downloads come from app store search. If this is true, this is bad news for FB. A huge chunk of FB revenue comes from mobile app install ads bc that was the only method large app developers had to send users to their apps. I previously worked at a gaming firm that spent $5M/month on these types of ads. If App Store search is effective, this will swing ad budgets away. FB still h…

FB will still be better for "app discovery" that was not intended by the user. How many times do you visit the App Store without already had an intent to download a specific app or a specific app category? Compare that to how often you visit the FB timeline. The intrusiveness of FB ads hitting your brain when you had no internal motivation for look for another app is why FB ads will continue to be powerful.

Do App Store search ads show up as Spotlight results?

i.e., in iOS9, when I searched for "spotify" in Spotlight, I'd get App Store results.

Re: Search Ads

#75

Post by r00fus »

georgeecollins wrote: post #72
HSO wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Retailers of CD-ROM games (when they were a thing) and video games do not charge that kind of markup. Maybe not anymore but the app store was launched in 2008. If you look at the percentage a writer or a band makes from a physical book resp. studio album, 50% actually looks very optimistic. Don't forget, there were multiple layers involved, including shipping, wholesalers, retailers, etc. and everybody wanted a cut…

2008? I started making retail software in 1995 and believe me in those days stores often only took 10 - 20% of the retail price for CD-ROMs because they drove buyers into the store. My point was that "distributors" or retailers never took 50% as the original post suggested. If you believe that the reason desktop software has a higher anchor price point than mobile is the multiple layers, please explain why the price…

But did retail press your disks and prepare your packaging? Did they provide analytics?

Your Steam analogy is flawed due to selection bias - Steam is about games, and games are more similar to movies than apps. People want entertaining content (and a good amount) for that initial price.

Does Steam allow for freemium? What about ad-driven games?

Re: Search Ads

#76

Post by r00fus »

slackoverflower wrote: post #64

This is a huge opportunity for Apple's own ad network, iAd, to really take off. Now that they have the advertisers who are willing to spend money and the information on iOS users who actually spend money in the App Store, this makes iAd much more valuable. Apple loves to control their ecosystem so having their own ad network implemented in majority of ad-revenue-based iOS apps would work out quite well.

Yeah, except the part where iAd was put out to pasture: https://developer.apple.com/iad/

"The iAd App Network will no longer be available starting July 1, 2016"

Re: Search Ads

#77

Post by jsonne »

downandout wrote: post #26
jest3r1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh yes, more fees for developers. > it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed They could improve the search algorithm to solve this. Perhaps redesign the app store UI to better accommodate new apps. Or they could stagnate for years and then solve the problem by charging developers more. I'm not a hater though.

>Ahh yes, more fees for developers. Developers (including myself) are already paying these fees to Google, Facebook and Bing in the form of app install ads. We'll likely get more more bang for the buck directly on the App Store though, so IMO it's a win for developers.

Your media mix will likely shift, but you'll still be paying Facebook, Google etc. as well. Btw take a look at Twitter if you aren't already. I've had good results there.

Re: Search Ads

#78

Post by ivv »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #43
ivv wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how supermarkets work, too. They get a cut of the sales price, and if you want your product to stand out, you pay for a more prominent placement.

Supermarkets are probably one of the least usable markets in existence though. It's almost impossible to go into a supermarket without an understanding of what you need and leave better off. You have to go in with expert knowledge of everything you need. Hardly a role model for marketplace design.

What would be an example of a more usable market that doesn't require some level of domain expertise?

Re: Search Ads

#79

Post by matt4077 »

nerdponx wrote: post #6
georgyo wrote: post #3

For many many years, the number one reason people told me why they used apple products was privacy and that with apple I'm not a product. It's how they could justify paying the high premium for apple products. It would be very interesting if they get into the advertising business. Harvesting data about my usage it and using that data to charge more for ads that are well targeted. It would mean that in addition to app…

I suspect they're doing it now because they realize they're the last company to _not_ abuse their users' privacy. Now that users have absolutely nowhere else to turn, Apple has no reason not to play that game. Edit: how do i italics

(a) This matches Searches to Apps, not users.

(b) The situations you're describing hasn't really changed since Facebook added ads, so they could've had that "realization" much earlier.

(c) Apple is positioning itself as a privacy-focused company with (for example) their lawsuit regarding iPhone unlocking and their implementation of differential privacy for their machine learning algorithms. It'd be stupid to give that up and risk a triple-digit-billion-business (iPhone) for what's bound to be a small fraction of that (ads in the App Store).

Re: Search Ads

#80

Post by blahi »

jest3r1 wrote: post #25
downandout wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't general advertising. It's only on the App Store and is based on the keywords you enter into a search in the store. They rolled this out because it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed anymore on there. Apple haters will use any new product to criticize the company, but this seems fairly benign and fills a need among developers.

Ahh yes, more fees for developers. > it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed They could improve the search algorithm to solve this. Perhaps redesign the app store UI to better accommodate new apps. Or they could stagnate for years and then solve the problem by charging developers more. I'm not a hater though.

>Perhaps redesign the app store UI to better accommodate new apps.

Do you have any ideas on how to do it?

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